It's sad how low class the mall has become.

Yeah well, you can't take the Middle River/Dundalk out of White Marsh/Perry Hall, but you can sure move your town fair there!

Right Lynn?

Very sad. We always enjoyed taking our kids there when they were little. It was such a nice place to take the family on a Friday night with the food court, Merry-go-round, clowns and shops. I very rarely go there anymore because it has gotten so bad.

I feel that it's only a matter of time until White Marsh Mall goes the same way that Golden Ring Mall did... a total tear down and rebuild. What an utter shame! Why are we letting the mall babysit our teens and tweens?! Why are we not teaching our children how to behave properly?! I live within 10 minutes of White Marsh Mall, yet choose to spend my $$ elsewhere because of the chaos at WMM.

@ Tom's comment.... High Five! LMAO I couldn't agree more!

It is a sad state of affairs when you cannot safely shop at the mall or eat at the food court. The mall is very scary on Friday and Saturday nights, in particular! Unfortunately, it is not just Whitemarsh mall but lots of places, especially Towson Town Center.

Again... 12 & 13 year old victims... 10pm at the mall. No parental supervision. I'm not blaming the victims, but I can't understand this. I am the parent of a 13 year old. There is not a shot in hell I would ever permit him alone at any mall at 10pm by himself. To be honest, if he is not in bed by 10pm its a rare night.

Is it me? I think that parents are to blame. The victim's parents for having an abnormally long leash and the suspects parents for not whooping their thieving children's tails early on!

I second that "High 5!" to Tim!! I also give one to Heather! Tearing down Golden Ring was the nail in the coffin for White Marsh. I hope it doesn't spread to Bel Air!

Kids don't belong at the mall alone...that place is not a good place to go after dark.
Towson Town covered up so much crime including rape in the past, I'm sure there is more going on at the mall than we know about. They need the rules that the avenue has, no minor after 9 w/o an adult.

Totally agree with the rules should be the same for the Mall as for the Avenue. I hate going to the mall on weekends and especially at night. My two teenage daughters could care less about hanging out at the mall. They only go there if they need to shop.

I vote for a curfew for anyone under 16 years old on any night. I think the curfew should be 7PM. If a teenager is in the mall after 7PM, there should be a parent present. Quite a number of parents use the mall as a babysitter. Sad to say these young kids are so unruly, normal shoppers will stay away. I do my shopping at White Marsh early morning and never on the weekend. I have seen White Marsh mall go down hill on the weekends and these young kids are the reason. About 2 years ago, it was a pleasure to go to the food court on Friday or Saturday nite to chill out and do some shopping. You can't pay me to go there in the evening. I hope the mall management wake up and see the problems. Otherwise, they will go the way of Owings Mill and Golden Ring malls.

You are witnessing destabilization taking place in Baltimore County. Golden Ring was a precursor to what will happen to WM.

Political correctness run amok, lack of accountability, parents who don't care, a dumping ground for the kids of those parents who don't care.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bal-disturbences-reported-at-inner-harbor-rowdy-behavior-in-canton-over-st-patricks-day-20120319,0,5312020.story

Does anyone know, or have heard the rumors about gang activity at the mall?

A kids behavior is normaly an extention of their family life. So obviously it does come back to the parents. But thats a whole animal in it's self to take care of. But what can be handled if the safety for the other patrons at the mall. The mall management should initiate a a chamerone policy which requires anyone 17 and under to be accompanied by a parent or gardian. Kids should not be dropped off and left there. The mall management has the control so they need to do something. Yes teenagers do spend money but they'll get more people if it is safe. I won't go there at certain times and I'm a 34 year old man.

Until we decide to get tough with these thugs, this type of moral decay will continue. Does anyone reading this think that the perpetraitors will receive any real punishment in court? These societal misfits think this is one big game. They're a product of their own home environment that believes that society owes them, not vice versa!

I agree that kids under 17 SHOULD NOT ever be dropped at malls to "hang" - especially at night. The negative influences of "hanging at the mall are too great to number here, not the least of which is a complete teen culture centered around rampant materialism, and inappropriate teen "gang" behavior. Teens just do things in groups they would NEVER do alone, or when even marginally supervised.

As a shopper of WMM for over two decades, I'm not sure how anyone thinks the mall has changed. There have always been scattered incidents, but few have been random acts.

Teens don't have many places to go. The mall is a welcome solution because there are a lot of shops and restaurants within a small space.

My apologies, but this isn't a matter of age - it's a matter of upbringing.

It's sad that ageism and residency bias are such huge issues in Perry Hall.

Out of curiosity, where CAN teenagers "hang" without having the parents "helicoptering" ? No teen centers exist anymore, and any place else (bowling alley, movie theater) doesn't want them there or cost a fortune. Teenagers do need a place to go and socialize away from their parents, with adult supervision of course. They need a place to go where they can cheaply and safely hang around with friends, and where they learn how to interact with their peers in a social setting. When they don't have a place like this to go, they either go to the mall and get robbed and beaten, or sit at home playing video games and become someone who has only virtual friends, which some parents seem to like because their child is "safe", but in reality is only turning their child into an asocial loner. Very sad!

It's truly sad that this is what our neighborhood has become. The amount of trashy people invading our neighborhood is just crazy. I wish there was a way to pull everyone together to fight the crime out of white marsh and perry hall. It wasn't that long ago that it was a safe place to be. Drug dealers on seven courts? never would have been a considered issue 10 years ago...now it happens all the time. The amount of peer pressure now a days and number of children who have no real parental guidance are slowly falling into a black pit. Someone either needs to straighten them up or else they're going to end up in a not so nice place...and personally, id rather ship off to another country then have my tax payers $ go to them in jail.

It all has to do with up bringing. Kids now a days have little or NO respect for anything or anyone......I dont go to the mall that often but when i do i try to grin and bare and try to give rude and ignorant the utmost kindness.....

I hate when people say teens don't have a place to go. I went to a friends house. I stayed home. I made games. I was creative. I had a brain and a imagination. I talked on the phone. If anything its the complete opposite to me. Kids have more to do than ever especially with new technologies.

B, sadly those days are long gone. Look at the video coverage on You Tube and what our young people are engaged in.

I was in the Quick Mart the other night. I see a very young mother, all inked up and pierced, with four children using food stamps. Right behind her walks in a couple of young males, all inked up with piercings asking if they take food stamps.

They all had cellphones though.

Tim, ditto. Well written comment.

it definitely is a family upbringing issue. especially when you see people who live in a community that are mostly home owners and everyone from the grandmother down to the youngest child has been arrested, on home arrest, or probation!!! like mother, like daughter, like son... think about it..... if we decide that we want to continue to give our money away to these non-working law breaking citizens, then this will continue...otherwise we need to request our government to mandate drug testing, etc for the above.

Grandparents,
We love to go to the Movies at the Avenue, but we don't go anymore on the weekends. There are mobs of young people and they can be very rude. I am so sorry that the Mall has had problems. We have not gone there in years.

I have said this until I'm blue in the face and it fell on deaf ears - it's called destabilization of the community!

This is what the Kamenetz administration has brought upon us. The scary part is that it will only get worse.

I don't believe that the problem at WMM is a parenting issue. Several years ago, when my son was a teenager, he occasionally hung out at the mall and there weren't problems like these. It's a clientele issue.

Joanne, if someone is there in the confines of the mall they are part of that clientele.

I can shed some light why our young people are turning out so disrespectful. My neighbor is a renter on Section 8. She is a young unwed mother with a small young son. She doesn't work and screams at this poor child many times a day. Sad but she uses profanity (F word) so loud, you can hear her down the street since her front windows are now open. This child is exposed to cursing and disrespect as a normal way of life. How is he going to act when he is older. This is what some members of society are producing as future citizens. God help us.

Folks, let's face facts. It is not Section 8, it is not the Kamentez administration, it is not Democrats or Republicans, it is not food stamps, it is not piercings or tattoos, it is the lack of fear/respect. When most of us over 40 grew up, it is not that we didn't do some dumb things, but we were always fearful/respectful of police and/or adults and what might be done to us.

Many, although not even a substantial %, of today's children have no fear/respect of adults. These same children have no respect for teachers, parents, adults and/or police. It is an attitude of "what are you going to do about it?" it is a "I dare you" attitude. Is this attitude fixable? Sadly, in my opinion it is not.

Paul you describe the people that are the exact types that lead to the destabilization of the community.

I just chose to be more visual in my description of said types.

I think a reporter from the Perry Hall Patch should interview management of the White Marsh Mall and the Avenue. I feel local residents should know if these business owners are being proactive by putting safeguards into place for their shoppers. I don't want to be in a middle of a fight and expose my family to harm at the Mall or the Avenue. If things don't change, I will take my shopping dollars to the Festival at Bel Air and other businesses in Harford County.

I blame the parents completely. I have an 18 year old daugter and a 12 year old son. Neither of them disrespect adults or anyone for that matter. They do not "hang" at the mall or anywhere else. They are too busy with school and school activities. It drives me insane when parents just let their kids do whatever they want because it is easier than actually parenting! Sadly enough harford county isn't much better. There is a reason fallston high school is also known as heroin high.

Dee I'll do my best to put it into perspective. First lets look at the term as defined:

de·sta·bi·lize (d-stb-lz)
tr.v. de·sta·bi·lized, de·sta·bi·liz·ing, de·sta·bi·liz·es
1. To upset the stability or smooth functioning of: a policy that threatens to destabilize the economy;

Now with that in mind, lets look at some links to further explain that precess in relation to the county's budget.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2010-06-29/news/bs-ed-baltimore-county-budget-20100629_1_income-tax-revenue-baltimore-county-shortfall

http://soetalk.com/2011/08/15/4217/

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-04-11/news/bs-md-co-session-kamenetz-20110411_1_kamenetz-state-aid-legislative-session

http://dundalk.patch.com/blog_posts/full-agenda-vip-speakers-greet-annual-norwoodholabird-community-meeting

http://times-news.com/latest_news/x606742422/-Doomsday-budget-spells-big-cuts

Some of the problems the county faces is the funding of the pension liabilities and the decline in revenues as more entitlement programs are increased and revenues decrease.

The latest census figures indicate an influx of poor and immigrants into the county while the middle class continues to leave not only the county but the state. MD is the fifth highest taxed state in the country.

Municipalities depend on funding from the state and those funds are drying up.

What was a 12 year old and a 13 year old doing in the parking lot at 10 pm. Waiting to get picked up thats what. Too many parents use the mall as a baby sitter. You know who you are.

After being in Lancaster, PA yesterday, I realized what is missing in Baltimore County including Perry Hall: the arts. We are not tapping into the creativity of our children. We are not offering constructive opportunities for our kids. Read this announcement from Lancaster County's Fulton Academy of Theatre:

"Spring is a busy time, but make sure you save some time for play. Join other budding young artists in a Fulton Academy of Theatre spring class or summer camp. Studies have shown that children motivated to practice a specific art form develop improved motivation and engagement, persistence, heightened educational aspirations and intellectual risk-taking, and the development of habits of mind that positively impact other academic and cognitive domains. Be sure to check out our scholarship opportunities, made possible by Susquehanna Bank and the Lancaster County Community Foundation."

Wouldn't it be great to utilize the Perry Hall Mansion and other local sites (e.g., Perry Hall Library) to offer performance and other art classes to young children and teenagers? Let's put their energy into learning and praticing to create--and not destroying things and people.

Dee I think you are correct in your observations. The problem, in my opinion, is that PA and MD along with BC are entirely different. That is why so may of MD's middle class have fled to PA.

You can't make kids learn that don't want to. You can't stop kids from taking drugs that don't want to. You can't stop kids from joining gangs that don't want to.

That is another part of the destabilizing impact on this community I was talking about.

I always draw parallels to the wide world of spots. I'm a golfer. You'll never get me to play soccer or tennis. It's just not a sport I"m interested in.

Your ideas are solid but as you know all of these issues relate to funding.

Eric, as they say, you nailed that one. Well done.

Paul and Buzz, I appreciate your comments and information. It seems we must start education/arts programs for the very young. By the time children become teenagers, it almost seems too late to turn around attitudes and beliefs. (Although I know of programs in other states that do this very thing.) And, yes, the lack of funding for the arts is a MAJOR problem in the Baltimore County school system, Rec & Parks, etc.
And, yes, many people, young and mature, have that attitude of entitlement.
I don't know what the answers are....

Dee, Marlon Brando became a star over portraying a character of similar nature.

Seems no much has changed since then. So many variables, so many theories and not enough money. Not much different than searching for a cure for cancer, another humane ailment.

Eric, recently in the City of Chicago on the east side, over the Saint Patric's day weekend a total of 49 people were shot, including the death of a young girl along with nine others.

The amount of money and time pumped into that area over the last 50 years is staggering and yet there has been no significant change.

Our jobs as parents is to water our seed in a positive environments , show them love and to teach them how to become self aware so they can make decisions based on information .We must also lead by example .Unfortunately most of the seeds of today come from BAD fruit ,So they turn to what they see on tv(a serious problem IMO) and the other bad , older kids who came from the same type of family .As humans we all want to belong and to be loved . Its real simple if you are not self aware or you do not teach your kids how to become self aware for the most part you either follow and or just go through life living based on walking blindly .Either one you dont know where your going and you cant understand your actions reaction .

You are exactly right, Tim. And too many parents use the boobtube as a babysitter and don't monitor what's on it. The other media bugaboo is the popular music scene which promotes gangsterism and violence against women.

Eric you are right on. If you can understand the lyrics of some hip hop music, a lot of this music involves violence. In essence, the police and society are the problem. The street gang, expensive wheels, and the money are the goal. There seems to be little or no remorse for their violent acts towards another person. Just look what happened this past weekend at the Inner Harbor. If this is our future, we, as a society, are all in trouble.

Monkey see monkey do ,and why are we trained like this(MTV is the worst ) ...so we all become bigger consumers and BUY more crap we don't need .We are made to believe that if we don't have the $1500 LV purse or wallet we are "LESS: of a class so in this pursuit people step on and disrespect one another . until we realize human life,our selves and our minds are the #1 investment this disease will keep spreading . When was the last reality show where it shows a young man or women going to school ,helping neighbors,or teaching how to be a great parent ??If the parents out there are crap and I ran mtv and was successful ,I would make a show on "how to be a great parent ,or once I love myself then i go out and find a great mate ect (haha sad part is no one would watch it)Like I said being self aware and treating your fellow man with respect is the key to life,anything else is extra. "Everything is divide and conquer "

WHIP IT...My pops belt used to instill fear,that no speech or punishment could ever of replacate.

White Marsh Mall is a hazard. It is nothing but an open unsupervised street playground with undesirable people. The store employees are quitting left and right and going elsewhere due to the safety issues and high thefts. Hard to swallow walking into a store and purchasing items with your hard earned money only to look to your side and watch thieves openly shoplift. The employees do absolutely nothing, because they can't. Sad. It is always a sign when the anchor stores and restaurants are closing in a mall. The fact that they have K-9 dog units walk the mall at night should yield anyone as far as safety concerns are involved. People who leave their young children here unattended should be ashamed of themselves and thoroughly think that process through. The Avenue at White Marsh is just the same as well. Both places went down hill as with the entire area.

The bus stop over on the side of Sears near the automotive center is INSANE..... I thought I was in the inner city......

Keep voting for the Dem's you liberals..... it will never get better. Only worse!

I'd rather see the rich get richer than the piece's of ^&$# who are ruining society get their handouts any day. Either way the middle class gets screwed. So do thr right thing.
Clean up this state, Perry Hall was so awesome 20 years ago when I moved here. Now I can barely stomach what it's become.

I think the parents should be arrested !!! If they can't raise their children to be law biding and respectful, then let them loose on the public. They raise criminals, they are criminals !!! Don't stop, go right to jail. Maybe these lousy parents would get a clue and try to be actual parents who teach responsibility . It really makes me ill. !!!

i am juz 13. i thing this is just too much!!!!!!!!!!!
i would rather eat my own hand then just assault someone

Almost everyone who has commented on this was NOT born in the 90's. I am 16 years old and mixed, some of these comments sound racist. I am getting offended by the ignorant things people are saying! Not all minoritys are violent and have a tase for crime. White Marsh useld to be my hang out spot every Saturday night before they made up these pointless rules. How about they get some REAL cops instead of these damn rent-a-cops!

AND to the people that are scared, get out of your bubble that yu obviously live in! YOUR in Baltimore and its 2013. Your generation is over, get out of the past.
Don't show these clowns fear.

I could go on and on, but I rest my case for now.

Tim you may be right. I deleted it. It is not my fist mistake and won't be my last.

I did set the record straight on one subject and after the finger pointing at the police how many comments were made. Now that contains some crumdugeoning.

My apologies to the young lady. They do have county police at the mall.

http://dundalk.patch.com/blog_posts/north-point-officers-exonerated-in-shooting-death-of-joshua-lopez

. "Now that contains some crumdugeoning."

BOBB

" It is not my fist mistake and won't be my last."

BOBB

Here is one of the quotes at the time of the incident of Mr. Lopez:
___________________________________________________
sean

5:51 pm on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

Buzz Beeler you are nothing more then a lethargic devil you know nothing about josh you know nothing about the situation it what actually happened all you know is what this false propoganda ...[sic]
_______________________________________________________

What am I now. I hear no outrage from those who vilified the police and yet no comments. What does that say? Hang first before the evidence is in?

And Steve you want justice. Your version of justice is Steve's world. Frank I think the unemployment figures are higher than you thought. They were announced tonight.

Reality sometimes gets in the way fantasy.

Coming from a dijp your word lacks a certain meaningfulness. I put up every time I write a blog. I write exposing corruption and wrong doing pandering politicians. I follow that up with facts, from main stream news sites or PIA's to get the truth.

What is interesting is that those who hide in the shadows and are gutless and afraid have the nerve to tell me to shut up and yet they have nothing to offer but their unfettered wisdom. You want respect but fail to do the nothing to earn it but run your mouth and say" LOL" like I can hear you.

How can I prove anything to nothing. The truth is not character assassination and speaking of that you follow your buddies Steve and Frank. They accuse me of crimes, libel me and yet you accuse me of character assassination. I defend myself against tings like you and I am not responsible that you have nothing to offer otherwise you would state same and be proud of what you do.

I asked jag what kind of work he did because he accused me of "sucking" off the public after working as a police officer for 39 years and just like you, Steve and Frank I will get no answer. You don't make sense. On the one hand you accuse me of not putting up and when I do you tell me to shut up.

When you grow up and become whatever a djp is that get back to me otherwise I know I'm at least more of person with character than you because I'm real.

"I asked jag what kind of work he did because he accused me of "sucking" off the public after working as a police officer for 39 years and just like you, Steve and Frank I will get no answer. "

LOL You never worked a day in your life!

I am at work.

"Lord Steve" I kinda like it!

DJP has you nailed to a tee Beeker.

Steve you are at work and you are on the computer commenting. Are you stealing form your boss or the company for not doing your job? Does that include you Frank and what about the links I posted on the unemployment that remained the same? That speaks volumes as to your honesty and creditability, but I expect that from you two.

And you wonder why this country is dying.

Cat got your tongue or your boss standing over your shoulder. I'm sure your job is a "lumpenproletariat" one.

Who or what is a DJP? Just another meaningless nothing. I'll change my life right away based on a nothing's remarks. Gutless!

No Beeker, My comments about your stupid crap are "Pending Approval".

Do you consider your own words that your were working as per your response. You made the statement, I didn't. You said you were working and as far as I know you are not allowed to use company computers for personal reasons.

I am commenting about everyone talking about kids going to the mall. Kids have been hanging at malls since the 50's. My boys got put out of White Marsh Mall a year ago. The cop that was on duty had put his hands on my son and grabbed him up by his jacket and told him that if he said anything to him again he would pepper spray him and arrest him. I came to the mall every Friday when they were there and they left with me. That one day he was there early and he was put out before I got there. My boys are not trashy kids. I am tired of people that have money up there asses talking about kids who are middle class as trashy kids. When I confronted the cop that put my son out and was in the process of making my other son leave because he is the brother of the other one,he said that my boys are trouble makers and disrespectful. I told him my son is in ROTC, and he works at McDonalds. When I pick him up from school every teacher in that school tell me that he is very respectful and his boss at McDonalds tells me the same, and that he is a good worker. The cops and security guards there like to harass and single out certain groups of kids. If they are wearing black or rock shirts and dressed goth they are trouble. The cops and guards there need to give respcect to earn it. I have been working in the school system for 8 years and kids are very respectful to me because I care. I don't judge anyone for how they dress or where they come from and I am always here for them