You know, what I honestly hope happens, once Obamacare is put in full swing, is that eventually this takes corporations completely OUT of the healthcare business.

This whole concept of companies paying for your insurance is fraught with problems like pre-existing conditions and the like.

It's high time companies simply paid more money (instead of health care benefits) and then allowed these STATE level exchanges of PRIVATE health care providers to actually cater to us, the people. Bring down their overrpriced rates (overpriced because they know companies will eat the cost), and start making insurance affordable for the common middle class family.

When you as an individual worker have your own insurance, your employer doesn't matter, now does it?

The one big thing I'm not convinced the PPAHA doesn't do, is actually reform healthcare. Then again, if they did that, health care companies would just charge more and more and do it because of "regulation". On some level, you have to put the bulk of the blame here it belongs - corporate greed.

As far as the companies dropping people to part time work, it's unfortunate but we'll see what happens when those employers start struggling to find hires. Desperate folks will take the work - long enough until they find better opportunities.

Either way, health care gets simpler if we get employers OUT of the loop. It just needs to be made affordable.

Republican fearmongering, that's how.

Look, I don't doubt the PPAHA will have issues once it's fully implemented. It's a groundbreaking concept fraught with initial problems.

However, I suspect 20 years from now, we'll be asking ourselves how we ever properly managed without it. Just like Social Security and Medicare.

JCG, you really think you have an appeals process with an insurer? That is funny. Ask anyone how many routine fights they have with insurers from tests to prescriptions. The difference is, the insurer pays bonuses to the deniers of care. Great system.

JCG Thank you for your well document taste of the truth. However, the schools and the media have been indoctrinating our people into the socialist mode. They somehow think the government will be more compassionate than corporations. Wanna know the difference? Corporations only have the courts. Our government uses courts and armed agents such as the new IRS para-military agents. However, young people are taught that our freedoms should be granted to the state.

Hmmm Bill, corporations routinely let people die before they acknowledge a problem. Cigarettes, automobile recalls (Pinto), etc. Corporations lie. Corporations only measure the bottom line. Many corporations are horrible citizens. "Corporations are people too" comes to mind. Corporations hide and lie, that is in their very nature.

FIFA, governments kill more of their own people than corporations ever have.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM (see Death by Government)

I see no reason to give into them nor embrace the popular enemies of class warfare. I will leave that for the "useful idiots" that the left so effectively courts.

JCG:

FIFA covered my first thought - you do realize how many (not all) of these insurance plans currently work right? My collegiate hockey playing days basically ended due to shady insurance companies via an HMO refusing to allow me to see a specialist for a knee injury. I was stuck at the same primary care physician who essentially told me to 'rest'.

As far as PPAHA - by the time I get particularly old, about 15-20 years of reform will take place. Existing bills are modified all of the time. Yes, this will be a high profile situation, and I'm confident revisions will be made. There's no way possible for this to be implemented the correct way from the start. None.

It's not a matter of indoctrination. I find it ironic that the right wing throws this word around so often, considering most of them get all of their info from places like "infowars", "cns", and fauxnews. That, my friends, is what you call irony.

In the meantime, unlike most of America, I'm keeping myself in pretty good physical shape, to mitigate as much as possible.
Can't stop genetics, but I will continue to control what I can.

Oh wow, documenting all of the people killed by governments WORLD WIDE all throughout history.

What an entirely relevant piece of information there Bill. Or not.

I'll take my chances in a Ford Pinto over being indoctrinated into Obamacare and his socialist agenda.

The subtle difference is, this is not nationalized/single payer healthcare.

The really liberal Democrats are angry it's not, but the right wing kooks would like you to think it is.

or you can fight for four more years to improve it.

Mike, you forgot to add born in Kenya to your theories. Get real. The internet breeds conspiracy theorists like you. All the polls but Rasmussen pointed to exactly how the election turned out. Get out of your sick bubble. You can't believe you lost. Get over it. If you only watched Fox you were surprised.

huh? I don't watch news at all, I hardly even watch TV and I'm an independent, both parties suck and both parties are corrupt. I have no bias to either side. Voting machine malfunctions were reported throughout the elections and more voters than registered voters in several states' counties. You call it a sick bubble if you want, I live in reality. I can't believe the country is this dense to not see this stuff, I didn't lose anything. Quite funny, all your assumptions about me are wrong. Go on if you want, though. It's entertaining.

..and oh yeah, I'm not surprised at all. I figured out elections were rigged a long time ago. By all means, keep the illusion going, though. It's not me living in a bubble. :)

Mike As we get more and more of these reports, expect the brainwashed left to laugh at them and through in old crap about Kenya. But they will NEVER give you an explanation as to why 143% of the voters were counted or how in a county were Romney polled at 40% the week before, he got "zero" votes on election day. Instead they will say Faux News Faux news they are lying etc. It's a shame. These folks are not just eroding our freedoms, they have given away their minds.

Jeanne get real. If you lie you would go to jail if/when caught. Some Republicans got caught "testing" the system by double voting. Hope they go to jail just like I hope you would if you test the system. It has been proven not to be a problem. You just ignore the facts. You are imagining a problem that doesn't exist because your guy lost. It has never been a problem in this country. You should worry more about the people that count the ballots.

You mean facts like 400,000 votes from Arizona haven't even been counted yet? You mean facts like 5.5 million republican votes weren't counted? You mean facts like hundreds of thousands of military absentee ballots weren't counted? You mean facts like voting machines tallying votes for Obama when people were voting for Romney? It's all a joke and a fraud, all of it. How can an election be taken seriously or even be considered valid if all the votes haven't even been counted? The answer is the votes don't mean a damn thing. I don't like Romney or Obama and you just sound like a child saying things like "you're just mad that your guy lost", what a bunch of crap. Your vote doesn't mean crap. There's no conspiracy, it's right in front of your face. It's no one's fault but yours if you refuse to acknowledge it.

Mike, you believe Obama was born in Kenya. I rest my case. You are a conspiracy theory nut job.

You are a baby Mike, grow up. Your boy lost. Let go of the banana and you shall be set free. Look it up, baby.

You're hilarious, when did I say that? I could give a damn where he was born, but I can tell you just like making things up, so go right ahead and be naive. Any more straw man arguments you'd like to present? Any more words you'd like to put in my mouth? lol You're funny.

You just insist on playing the bipartisan game, don't you? Obama isn't my boy and neither is Romney, why can't you get that through your head? You're the one acting like a child and it's quite funny. lol I don't like anything about Romney at all and not much to like about Obama either. You must be good at dodge ball, huh?

Mike, I have a distaste for people like you who are conspiracy theorists. When you don't get you way you were cheated is what you believe. Is your middle name Trump or Rove? You are ridiculous. Do you believe we landed on the moon?

Since you refuse to address any facts and insist on personal attacks and other childish nonsense, it's quite clear you have no interest in reality. I'm talking about the election and you're talking about the moon. Seriously, I'm laughing out loud. You're too much, get a grip on reality.

Mike, you have no facts. You have conspiracy theories, that simple.

I see, so the military is lying? Election officials in Arizona are lying? People who used voting machines that would not let them vote for Romney are lying? lol, sure, everyone is lying except you and the mainstream media. Like a horse with blinders on and will eat anything spoon fed to them without question. That's alright, I know how precious your illusions are to you, so you hold on tight and do whatever you have to do to maintain this false sense of reality you have. You're sooo pissed off for no real reason at all. Anything that threatens your illusions provokes hostility and makes you act like a child.

Election officials are lying about uncounted votes and the military is lying about uncounted votes, but that's all conspiracy to you? You've lost your mind. Name call all you want, it means nothing to me. Uncounted votes mean the votes don't matter and don't factor in to the election, not even the military's votes. What a way to show appreciation to them, huh.

You're just funny, that's all you are. :)

Mike, you see things that are not there. The polls before hand, 19 out of 20 had Obama winning. It then happened. Get out of your bubble. You see a conspiracy theory under every vote. I was concerned about vote totaling, but not by democrats, but by republicans. The Republicans controlled the swing states that mattered, Ohio, Virginia and Florida. Somehow the democrats infiltrated the republican ranks. You are a sick loser. Everyone sees that.

Haha, whatever you say. Over three million votes uncounted in California too, but that's just another lie huh. It's a shame so many Americans are this dumb. Millions of uncounted votes country wide, but no one cares and no one sees the injustice. I guess elections are still valid even if millions of votes just don't count. Brilliant, close your mind, ignorance is bliss after all.

Whatever Mike, when talking to a conspiracy theorist like you there is no changing their mind. The conspiracy lives on, just like we never landed on the moon and the CIA blew up the Twin Towers. Have a good evening, at least you let everyone know your opinions for now and the future. Just one question, have you prepped your underground bunker for the Apocalypse? You probably need to get to work on that too.

I never said anything of the sort. You're good at making things up about people, then attacking them for it. None of that has anything to do with this topic nor are they my opinions. You really are so pathetic. It's hilarious and sad at the same time. You're gonna starve all those poor horses using their food to make strawmen arguments, putting words in people's mouths and then insulting them as if it were true. You live in a world of illusions.

Mike, have a good evening. I'll let you have the last word. You have made your opinions clear and so have I. The readers will decide what they believe or don't believe.

Well that's easy. Fido is never one to be believed. Ever.

Indeed they will. You already have a nickname from a fan, I see.

Off topic Mike, you have things like BlOb in your corner, that would worry me.

Mike, I have been polite to you, want me to go in the toilet with you? I will if you feel that is required?

Why should it? You've shown yourself to be an angry, name calling, fact ignoring "nut job" as you put it. The real question is why would anyone want to be in yours?

Mike you are a conspiracy theorist. No different than Trump. I do not need to judge your opinions, readers can. Bye, you infantile expressions have now bored me. Remember, BlOb is in your corner. Have a good evening, I'm done with losers like you.

That's polite? Wow... that's polite to you, huh. I don't even know what to say to that. Stop acting like a child.

I never claimed to be a conspiracy theorist, that's just you making things up in your little illusionary world because you can't debate like an adult. You resort to personal attacks, name calling and blind assumptions that aren't true. You're the one who looks like a tool, not me. :)

Mike: You aren't going to honestly tell me that Republican voters are suppressed more then inner city (90% Democrat) voters in poor cities nationwide...are you?

5.5 million Republican votes not counted? Riiiiight. It's more right wing sour grapes from joke sites like WND.

Because seriously, you are smarter then that.

There were also voting machines that only clicked Romney when you chose Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpGd74DrBM

It's easy to see, and if you miss it the first time you double check your ballot before you leave the facility. If someone is too stupid to do that, then I don't know what to tell you.

As far as the military and absentee voters, I'm just going to speculate that their votes (volume) don't affect the outcome, ergo, they don't need to be counted.
Arizona's voters? Same deal. Romney won the state going away.
The same thing happens every single election. It's not like anything different happened this time around procedurally.
I don't doubt there's improprieties here and there. Power corrupts and it's not partisan.

Another thought - and this is NOT directed at you, Mike. Just the radical population on this forum in particular.

Has it occurred to any of you who believe this right wing ridiculousness about widespread voter impropriety by the Democrats that maybe someone relevant in the Republican party would have brought this up at some point? You know, if it actually had legs?

Moreover, has it occurred to any of you (either party) that voting overall was down, because millions more people are completely disgusted and indifferent with who wins because both options genuinely suck?

Because this second point is reality. Not some brain porn off some libbie or neocon nut website.

Everyone loves this country, and if everyone actually agreed on the same direction , then THAT would be scary.

Yes.

Kevin, redistribution has been happening in this country for a long time. You just fail to acknowledge that tax cuts have made the rich richer. That subsidies to corporations have made them richer. In the meantime all you see are the republican talking points and choose to ignore the breaks given to the wealthy and the corporations. Why do you choose to do that?

Yea right, you are the one who predicted a Romney landslide. You forget that already? All you could do was pontificate about rubbing our noses in "brown stuff". Did it get in your eyes BlOb? You are right about nothing. Go back into your hole and shut up.

I'd like to see you try to make me, Fido. ROTFLMAO

Now we have "manly" BlOb. Just aren't you "powerful" for all to see? Your words are extraordinarily cheap BlOb.

Hey you're the idiotic libbie nutter trying to issue orders, Fido. Now I'd like to see you try to back it up.

Grow up BlOb.

Good boy, Fido. Now stay down.

BlOb, all you could do was say how you were going to rub our nose in the "brown stuff". How does it taste? You got whipped. It was a landslide. Suck on that BlOb.

Your favored candidate won but you are still the same loser, Fido. And I will still drag you through the dirt like the junkyard dog you are.

Balled-upSurfer - So sad - all you express is how you make someone's anus hurt, or drag them through the mud, or ??? Before the election it was going to happen when Obama lost, and now you keep it up when your guy lost.

Seriously, you should get some help with your anger issues.

OBTW - don't start that crap with me - I know about you and your Uncle Ernie in the back of the basement.

Ah, Honeybucket rushes in to defend the honor of his loverdog, Fido. How heartwarming. But beware Honeybucket: bestiality is an abomination. ROTFLMAO

Definitely agree with proof of identity laws.

Great post and indeed, it is a sad reality.

It is indeed a sad state of affairs in this country. It's not just the news media, it's the talk shows on each side as well.

Somewhere along the way, entertainment took over from journalism.

This is nothing new. The news media in the time of Andrew Jackson was brutal. Papers were divided by party (not one party like today) Jackson's wife was dragged into it and called a woman of ill repute. he was accused of murder etc. Things may have actually calmed down compared to then.

Absolutely Agree.

A country divided against itself is easier to control, manipulate and makes it easier for a tyrannical, corrupt government to flourish. This is what they want, you see. People seem to love to hate one another. We put labels on other people and put them into categories and then hate them for it. Whether it's republicans and democrats, liberals and conservatives or in some cases people of different color, race or sexuality. All people want to do is blame each other while the real people causing all this are laughing. As someone who prefers to stand outside all this partisan bickering, it makes no sense to me at all. It's like it turns grown adults into children and I really wish people could take a step back and look at themselves because it just makes people look stupid.

All this anger is being directed at the wrong people. Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin, nothing more or less, but both think they're the only ones that are right and both insult each other like a bunch of middle schoolers. It is such silly nonsense and I wish people could see that. The ones who do see things for what they are is a small number of people. They are ridiculed, insulted, laughed at, and ultimately ignored. It is the height of arrogance and ignorance, IMO. A corrupt government doesn't want it's people to be united because they couldn't survive against 300 million+ people. If they can be made to hate each other, they remain divided. They set the trap and most fell for it.

We don't have to give them what "they" want. We can each decide to work at having a peaceful heart.

I agree, we don't have to, but people choose to. Change comes from within and most people don't seem to want to change. It would be great if we could because then we'd really start to see positive change.

Mike - I try to vote for the best candidate. But, when a party nominates extreme candidates that can affect everybody nationwide, then it is hard to vote for that party. Give me John McCain 2000 and I possibly vote for him. Give me John McCain 2008 when he sold his soul, then I don't.

I understand that. I really believe that at the core of things, if you boil all this hate and vitriol away that people have for each other, everyone wants the same thing. Most people know something is very wrong with this country and they all want to fix it, but all the other stuff gets in the way and people just end up fighting with each other. The quality of candidates just gets worse and worse and people just keep on voting for them.

I think anyone who gets elected into a corrupt system becomes corrupt themselves. We don't need to look much further than this thread to see what politics does to people and the people here aren't even politicians, imagine if they all had power. The system is broken and until the corruption is fixed, anyone elected into it will also become corrupt if they aren't already. It's almost like you have to be corrupt in order to hold a government position because that's how the system is.

People have forgotten that when we are united, we hold all the power, but divided, we give that power away and for what? I wish people could unite and change things. If we can't, the worst is yet to come. I don't want to see this country fail, but I hate what people have allowed it to become.

Sometimes compromise is nothing but an incremental victory for one side and an unrecoverable loss to another. This country has swung too far to the wrong direction as it is.

That's basically what Bobby Jindal suggested today.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83743.html?hp=f3

A much different Jindal than when he was being considered as a VP pick.

Yeah you noticed that too, FIFA.

I told my centrist-conservative friend on the way out of work that Jindal was just securing his place in the first lifeboat. ;)

The rats always find a way off the sinking ship Tim.

@John Doe Based on what you just said should the DNC change its mascot to Che Guevara? Maybe something else based on the fact that they want to remove God and Israel from the platform. Who or what would that be?

The thing is folks, it's fun talking to rational people on both sides. I'm more centrist-liberal, but the liberal stuff on my end is much more social then governmental.

Just because I believe something like gays having the right to legally marry, doesn't automatically make me a lover of the DREAM act, or governmental free spending in general. Just because I believe taxes should be raised (specifically, but NOT solely, on the wealthy) doesn't mean I am against major cuts in government - both non-military and military to a lesser extent.

This is obviously the problem with the folks in our government today. There's only two options, and they are both insane and irrational in their own respective ways. What's worse is that compromise is considered losing based on the 24 hour news cycle, and it's not just crippling our nation - it's crippling the world too.

Ok, off the soap box I go.

Bill Howard - lighten up, the Democrats are fine being the donkey.