LOL SEIU is out of state?? Not the last time I looked. Maybe he can charge admission to a cross burning or two. Maybe a "Dunk the Klansman" booth.

As a State Delegate this guy should know that SEIU has over 9,000 members in MD.

This law blows. I will be donating. I'd be for a law that pays for an illegal's bus ticket home.

My goodness! Last time I checked the history books we are all immigrants. You may want to check the lastest Census 2010. In my opinion, just follow the rules and pay taxes just like everyone else. As an African-American if we did not have the Civil Rights Acts I guess we would still be in the days of the movie "The Help" Let's get beyond bigotry, hatred, arrogance and inferiority complex. "ism" is a disease. Conservative Christians ?????????? Spare me. This is why the East side can not move forward economically, socially and everthing else. Thank goodness there is a higher power that looks at the heart of man. Where is your heart Mr. McDonough?

Dream Act or Nightmare? A cornerstone of our culture is the rule of law. Casa de Maryland is corrupt and the Dream Act is just another magnet for illegal immigrants. Those that have no respect for our culture and laws should not be rewarded. And not fair to those that follow the proper immigration rules to be pushed aside by one group.

That is rather simplistic and inconsistent. First, we aren't all immigrants. How can someone who sought office not know what an immigrant is? Because my great grandfather was an immigrant doesn't make me one. That's a rather simple concept.

Also, I'm not sure where you were born (I checked your website and it states, "has been a native of Eastern Baltimore County for most of her life." Beyond not making sense and multiple confused usage, I couldn't figure out if you were born here), but if you were born in the U.S. the Census Bureau would refer to you as Black, not African-American...since you want to utilize the 2010 Census Data.

Not the biggest McD fan, but when it comes to this blatent disregard for our Constitution and accompanying legal system, I'll be contributing.

Whaddya mean "respect for our culture and laws"?? Who says that immigrants don't?

The whole immigration process is run by special interest groups. We wouldn't even have illegal immigration if the process was run fairly with no special preferences given to residents of certain countries, ethnicities and religions.

Personally I think there are more pressing issues to tackle right now then trying to prevent or overturn legislation that is attempting to make it easier for people to obtain a college education. But then again, if it weren't for distractions such as the War on Drugs, Terror, and Illegal Immigration, people might actually pay more attention to the problems being caused and neglected by our very own citizens, including *gasp* the very elected officials trying to redirect our focus in the first place.

If anything the Dream Act ensures that people who are already paying taxes and attending Maryland schools have the opportunity to become educated, productive and taxpaying members of society. Repealing or stopping the Dream Act won't decrease Maryland's immigrant population, and any increase due to the passing of the Dream Act will be negligible at best due to the fact that in order to qualify you must have spent time attending school in MD and have a job where you are paying taxes. Furthermore it is estimated that only about 100 students currently qualify; that is roughly 1 in 7100 non-native born residents, and that number INCLUDES non-native born citizens (12.3% of the state population as of 2010).

It is telling, but not at all surprising, that those who are opposed to the Dream Act are those who won't be effected by it in any way. Unfortunately this is nothing new, and it will continue in Maryland, and the United States, regardless of whether or not the Dream Act passes.

All this money and effort would probably be better spent to promote the reform of our current National immigration policies.

No respect for our nation's laws = no respect for America. Why stop at just breaking the immigration laws? Illegal immigrants and those that profit from them try to justify their illegal activity. Only follow the laws you like and justify in your own mind that it is okay by saying the system is broken. Jump in front of others following the rules and say it doesn't matter. Casa de Maryland is corrupt.

What I am wondering is how these" Dream Act" people expect to go to school in Maryland Colleges, when legally, if they do not have documentation to prove Citizenship, they can't work in Maryland. More Employers are using E- Verify now, and I think that is a good thing. All out of state students should pay the same fees to Maryland Colleges.

It's oh so convenient to throw around phrases like "Casa is Corrupt". What act of corruption have they committed.

All out of state students do pay the same tuition.

Quote from Mr. Amrstrong: "The whole immigration process is run by special interest groups. We wouldn't even have illegal immigration if the process was run fairly with no special preferences given to residents of certain countries, ethnicities and religions."

Now that is a switch. Casa run fairly, no special preferences? An oxymoron at its finest.

When you seek ways to allow your members to break the law that qualifies your organization as being corrupt.

http://www.aim.org/special-report/casa-de-maryland-the-illegal-immigrants-acorn/

Now that is a stretch. One that slurs anther's name on a regular basis uses inappropriate language, hates white people is not creditable, trustworthy or believable.

Do you get that gushy feeling standing knee deep in it.

I should go to your per-approved sight to get the truth. You think that might be bogus as you say.

You need to practice what you preach meaning you are the one acting like a racist so I'll use your own comment to illustrate that: "... but I think you knew that before you posted)".

Here is another link. Make sure you click on the link that is provided that shows Casa's booklet they publish in what to do in dealing with the authorities. Rather interesting.

http://www.helpsavemaryland.com/index.php/casa-de-maryland

ROTFLMAO "Help Save Maryland" You are only making your self look more foolish Bunker (if that is even possible).

I should have know this would go right over, never mind. I realize your thought process is not quite up to snuff so as they say, at least in your eyes, well not really, as the saying goes, - don't shoot the messenger.

I don't feel foolish, I could find the link an included instructions for you to follow to read it. I guess that was asking too much.

So here it is for you and it can't get any simpler than this.

http://www.helpsavemaryland.com/files/Raids_document.pdf

Make sure you read the whole publication because the credits are at the end.

Pssst Bunker! Scroll down the Nativist-Extremist Hate Group list to "Maryland". What is the name of the only Hate Group in Maryland on that list?
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/sinister-intentions/nativist-extremis

Maybe you can have amdactivist help you sew a pointy hat to match your new robe.

Steven, what is interesting here is that Mr. Armstrong wants me to look at a list of hate groups and yet he continues to use hate speech in a majority of his responses to those who like me who disagree with him.

His response has nothing to do with the link that reveals the pamphlet published by Casa. He has no answer for that because it goes against his agenda.

I am familiar with the SPLC and actually think they have done some good work when dealing with the KKK.

I do not think they are the - be all to end all - authority to these complex issues.

How can you carry on a dialogue with one that cannot hear anything you say.

So sayeth the Grand Kleagle.

Awwww Poor Widdle Buzzy Wuzzy. Did the post hurt your feelwings? Try putting on your Big Boy pants for a change.

I knew someone that had an employee that was not in this country legally that had taxes taken out with a social security number he provided. What happens if the employer had entered that employees number and information in E verify. I would suspect nothing would be flagged. He may have done that I don't know. I do know this employee worked for him and also at a restaurant in Bel Air. The employee got in some trouble and had to wear an ICE ankle bracelet for a year and was scheduled to be deported. The day before he was to be deported he went to his deportation meeting and they removed his bracelet and handed him a plane ticket to Mexico, shook his hand and told him good luck. The guy I knew told him he couldn't come back to work for him, but he went back to work at the restaurant with a Puerto Rican ID. I always wandered if he was considered deported. He may well have been 1 of the number published as the uptick in the number of deportees in 2010.

I say if there is a law to become a citizen then obey it. If your not leagal then you should get no breaks, but I do agree this money could be spent to make them legal,simple its been thhe law of the land for ever so why should that change now? seems simple to me

It's easy. The IRS issues the person a TIN. Taxpayer Identification Number. E-Verify is a wast of time and has a less then 50% success rate.

Robert do you have any FACTS to back up your statement? The success rate is much higher that 50%
(2008) Less than 5% error rate:
http://www.cis.org/Everify
(2009) 96.9 percent of employees are automatically confirmed as work authorized either instantly or within 24 hours, requiring no employee/employer action:
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextchannel=a16988e60a405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextoid=f82d8557a487a110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD
(2011) 98.3 percent of employees are automatically confirmed as authorized to work ("work authorized") either instantly or within 24 hours, requiring no employee or employer action. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=7c579589cdb76210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=7c579589cdb76210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD
(And check your spelling next time in your post)

As long as there is there no national i.d card im good also ii think e verify is good, but not forced on business there are other ways, but i really think 80% of the employers know, or just turn a blind eye or under the table. Of course thats just what i see

Opps sorry about typos on my phone. Big thumbs

Dkennlee, you have to go a long way to beat me. Maybe one day Patch will add an edit feature thus eliminating these faux pas.

The profit margin is the driving motivation behind a lot of this is profit and cheap labor.

Thanks Buzz I'm trying to slow down my thumbs... I agree and have even scene a contractor I used. and Im pretty sure he did not use e-verify, or wanted two for that matter. I could be wrong but when the price is really good and then you see the workers.

LOL CIS!!! The Hate Group?? You have got to be kidding me!! Are you part of Bunker's Dundalk Klan?

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/providence-study-finds-everify-database-fails-to-catch-illegal-workers-over-50-percent-of-the-time

Bunker lies and you swear to it.

Here is some more information about the Hate Group CIS that the bigots around here love to quote:

http://www.splcenter.org/publications/the-nativist-lobby-three-faces-of-intolerance/cis-the-independent-think-tank

Now why would anyone even consider looking at anything you linked when you act like some child that doesn't get his way.

The absurd part is you use the word hate group while accusing me a being a member of the Dundalk Klan. You have your own hate club and you are the only member.

I'm beginning to think that you are hiding something. You know when I asked if there was anyone on Patch that ever heard of you, there was not one answer, nothing.

I lie? About what? Where is this Klan group you speak of located in Dundalk? How far did you go in school? Did you ever work? Why do you always act like a child, one with some real problems.

People like you are the reason that I will continue my fight against illegals.

Now lets see you prove your statements you just made or go back into that shadow of non existence

After making a statement about Dundalk like that I would say you might not want to come down here, but that wouldn't make any difference since no one has ever heard of you anyway.

Amazing, not one person ever heard of you or your name. Now that is not much to show for your life's work now is it?

and ron paul in crazy and a danger to the usa lol wow good read

HaHaHa "Western Journalism" is part of the same organization that brings us World Nut Daily. You really consider these legitimate sources????

hey today I looked all these people up and read what they have said or done ..of course im still reading and its from different sources.. seems to be lineing up good with western Journalism ? Robert have you taking anytime to reserch before posting? just asking, brcause when 10 sources line up but with totaly different sentences, Im sure there as legitmate as it can be ,,,if you notice main stream is word for word on the same story

This is interesting: "Legitimacy is “a value whereby something or someone is recognized and accepted as right and proper”. Excerpt from Wikipedia.

Neither of these issues applies to Mr. Armstrong. In fact there is not one person on this site can verify his "legitimate," existence.

He continues to make accusations about the bigots on this site but can offer no reason for the likes of Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright_controversy

Here are some more facts he and the SPLC did not allude to.

http://rkeefe57.wordpress.com/2011/02/27/splc-the-biggest-lie-keeps-getting-bigger/

The key here is the messenger and until he becomes legitimate his message is mute.

Okay Bueller. Lets take a look at the time you tried to defend Mimi Jr's. Is this Legitimate??

http://md.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19830908_0040136.MD.htm/qx

Bueller you have no right to question anybody. From the same link as earlier:

The charges against Beeler stem from the following facts: At approximately 1 A.M. on 9 April 1978, the Baltimore County Police responded to a report of overcrowded conditions at Mimi Jr.'s, a local county nightclub. Upon their arrival, the police proceeded to close down the club. As the crowd was leaving the premises, Beeler, who was off duty, approached Sergeant Vernon Becker in a hostile and aggressive manner, and in a loud voice criticized the department

[55 MdApp Page 520]

for harassing the owner of the club. According to Sergeant Becker, Beeler said, "I know that Mimi takes care of the Parkville Police and we should not hassle him." Beeler also stated, "I am going to ISD [the Internal Affairs Section which investigates police conduct] and complain about this harassment that your guys are putting on Mimi, there's no problem here, this is more of Lowe's [Lt. Lowe] bullshit, everytime he works this place gets hassled." Sergeant Webster testified that Beeler "advised me that the police should leave Mimi alone because he takes care of all of the Parkville Police. I asked him what he meant and he said, you know what I meant." In addition to the presence of other police officers, there were several citizens in the vicinity when Beeler made his remarks. Some of the officers were angered and embarrassed by Beeler's remarks.

You are correct. The case stemmed from an incident in which a band at the old Golden Horn quit and went to Mimi Lorenzo's. There were rumors of threats being made because a club can live or die based on the popularity of the house band.

Mr. Lorenzo told me he had not seen the police in years accept when asked for a donation for a particular cause. Now all of sudden after this band starts and his business takes off here comes a particular shift sergeant and shuts the club down for fire code violations.

After several times I went to the fire department and told them of what was going on. They in turn assigned a fire marshal to Mimi's and again this same sergeant shows up to shut the club down. When the fire marshal starts to intervene he was told to butt out.

I went outside and had a private conversation with the sergeant and told him what I thought was going on. I was charged with conduct unbecoming. IA sustained the charges but the FOP appealed the case on my behalf to the circuit court. The fire department also testified on my behalf.

The remark that he takes care of the police was in reference to his donations to various police causes.

What is interesting is that as a result of my involvement in this case the police manual was changed and prohibited police officers from shutting down establishments without the request or presence of a fire marshal.

(Continued)

(Continued)

To further set the record straight I was fired in 1972 for refusing go get a hair cut after just getting one. A sergeant put a ruler to my head and measured the white-wall around my ear and that was enough. Myself and another officer went to the ACLU and they took the case. It was the first of its type in the country. We won and changed history. I went back to work with all rights and privileges. The FOP would not represent us on this case.

Now we come to you. The difference between you and I is that I will face any situation and not attempt to hide or run from it. My life is a matter of record which you pointed out. Now if you can do that, why can't you tell us something about your non existence?

It's amazing that you can do all of this and yet there is no evidence you can produce that you were ever born.

The difference between me and you is that I can MAN up and face my past. In your case you neither have one and cannot man up. That to me is the sign of a true coward.

Bueller, all you do is complain. You have no credibility as evidenced from the post above. You complain about corruption in the county and you are on public record running interference for Mimi Lorenzo.
Weren't they busted for fencing stolen items???

"You have no credibility," now that's a mouthful coming from someone who's whole life amounts to following my career. I hope that $4.95 didn't break your bank.

"Weren't they busted for fencing stolen items???" You might want to read this although after that last expenditure you will have to wait for your next check.

My only encounter with Mr. Lorenzo was in that case, but if he's still out there he might want to take a look at this.

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2011/12/crystal_cox_oregon_blogger_isn.php

You see Robert unless you have some evidence to back up this slanderous claim and since you have no experience as a reporter or for that matter anything else, you could lose the last two nickles you are rubbing together.

I am flattered that you would go to that trouble to spend your last $5 to look up that case. It did bring back some memories.

That situation had nothing to do with fire code violations. Reminds me of Minnick's.

Buzz, I wouldn't expect a response from "you know who" until about 9 AM. That's when they unlock the doors so that they can use the computer in the day room.

Yay! Paul made a funny!

Paul, the thing that bothers me about people like Armstrong or whatever his name is, they don't mind the name calling, the lies - about his life not mine - and anything that would give them the slightest bit of creditability. They demand it of others and yet they have none. Rather sad.

I have always tried to be upfront with any questions asked of me. I have no problem with my record. I did what I thought was right. Sometimes I won and sometimes I lost, but at least I got into the ring. Somethings never change thus the comparison between Mimi's and Minnick's.

I do take solace in knowing my actions ultimately changed the rule book, but the rules are still being broken, i.e. the ADA investigation.

I think he hides in the shadows for a reason and I have two theories. One would be obvious and the other deals with self esteem.

Failure is painful. Not achieving all of your goals is painful and so is reality. As they say - reality bites.

There are a lot of things happening on the east side this year, and I'll be on the sidelines watching and commenting about them.

Thanks for your comment.

Your actions didn't change any rule book . You are a legend in your own little bigoted mind Bueller.

Hey hey hey , buzz and robert you guys are on a roll wow lets all take a breath and relax, man someone is gonna blow a head gasket here... we all make comments that others disagree with Im not trying to be all mighty here, because if you look at somethings I hve commented on have turned in to a small war lol but this is geting a little to personal just my feelings I dont know either of you that well. but this war will never end iits a ping pong match so to speak. i think armstrong has went alittle far with pushing out personal records even if they are public to be used in a debate over the patch, that being said when you questions some ones personal doings ..yours will be questioned also. buzz take a breath you know who you are no one else here is hung up on your past. good or bad, robert you need to chill and remember just because someone doesnt agree with you its not personal, I have caught myself getting all heated up here also and deleted a comment here and there. I still stick to my guns when I feel i need to but with out name calling or personal attacks. we are all still learning from our mistakes .lets chaulk this one up as a tie and move on to whats going on in our broken goverment and attck these fool lol have a great day guys

I am just pointing out that when Bunker complains about cronyism it's like the Pot calling the Kettle Black.

Dkennlee, just as I finished my response to you this appeared. Rather ironic but I will say the comments were not personal and I have no problem with that.

http://cockeysville.patch.com/blog_posts/nbc-new-hampshire-republican-debate-ii-a-few-more-sparks-signifying-little-change-in-romney-prospects?ncid=following_comment

This article appeared in the Sun. Pay particular attention to this paragraph because this topic always comes up.

"Longtime residents have raised concerns about large numbers of immigrants living in rental units intended for a few, as well as a lack of street parking and a rise in rowdy conduct, Johnson said. The community's public school resources, she said, have been strained by accommodating students who speak Spanish."

One city in the article is mention as a success story based on the increase in their population, but here is another side to that issue.

http://www.uac.org/news/can-we-tackle-philadelphias-poverty-problem-technology

Population growth for growth's sake is not the panacea for solving many of these complex problems.

Hey Buzz all I can say is wow really. I never saw armstrong curse like that in a comment, way uncalled for I like the debate it gets people talking but this is just out of line I looked back and see some comments were deleted buy a moderator.. after so many potty mouth comments cant you be banned? and buzz dont take what i said before.. i dont think anythink that was in any of armstrongs comments make you look bad at all ..I mean 1978 really wow anyway I see now ..could we be dealing with a kid just stiring things up? wow well we should just ignore all his post then he will get the idea ..I gave armstong a chance now i see how ...i dont even have a word for it anyway have a good one buzz

Dkennylee, I told you. This was posted on Cockeysville Patch. I know you mean well, but this person has some serious issues. I did not respond to his remarks. I just wanted you to know what I predicted was true. Read the link.

http://cockeysville.patch.com/blog_posts/nbc-new-hampshire-republican-debate-ii-a-few-more-sparks-signifying-little-change-in-romney-prospects?ncid=following_comment

If anyone doubts what this man is all about they should read this. I choose to link it rather than quote it, for those who could be offended. By the way, I have been called much worse.

Up late to I see. I just wish I looked like I did in 78. They were some great times, I think.

What baffles me is why would you choose to do exactly what someone predicts especially when it's embarrassing to that person and by making those kinds of statements he is validating his own character.

He has been deleted for this several times and he won't learn. What you see is what you get.

Now cover your eyes and ears, cause I'm sure I can hear him typing away.

Take care.

WOW Guys - This sounds like a pi- - ing contest. Buzz you seem to be the most creditable one here. Robert, sounds as though you are a past co-worker whose life is less than perfect; thanks to your actions in the past. Perhaps you need to attend an Anger Management Seminar, it would curb the anger you have for yourself. Both Buzz and Robert are totally off topic.

I am sick and tired of hearing Illegal Immigrant; STOP the Political Correctness (that is a liberal term, for society to accept issues that destroy the fabric of America) return our English language. Illegal Immigrants are actually "Criminals", what liberties do Criminals have? Criminals are not entitled via taxpayers' dollars to food stamps, housing, education, and discount higher education. These entitlements should not be given for those who violate our laws. The dictionary defines Illegal - One who is unlawful, unlicensed, or criminal; refers most specifically to violations of statues or laws. HELLO, violation of laws. If you are in violation of laws, therefore, you are a criminal. Criminals should be deported, not enough space in our jails to house them, plus jails are another burden to the taxpayers.

(Continued) I do have empathy for those who are fleeing countries, for safety, lack of jobs, and lack of food. ANOTHER HELLO - we are concerned about home-grown terrorists here, there definitely is a lack of jobs thanks to Obama's regulations which stiffel jobs; and those who are out of work, going to food pantries and as a last resort to food stamps to feed their families.

The definition of Illegal is criminal - NO BENEFITS to Criminals.

Go to the Columbia Social Services and watch those who walk through the door. So many do not speak English (but if you don't, our tax dollars will provide an interpreter for you to gain access to our FREE system) - This is the land of the free - NOT THE LAND EVERYTHING IS FREE!!! After these illegal's or American deadbeats leave - they jump into a Hummer - the women have money for manicures and pedicures, piercing's, and the newest fashions. Others have just arrived, NO ENGLISH, but walk out with cash vouchers - food stamp entitlements, and Medicaid. Just be an American who has worked for 40 years paying taxes, loose job, loose healthcare, loose unemployment and be told you are not entitled.

Obviously, I paid into the system for those who come from other countries, those who are deadbeat Americans, or those who work the system which I paid for; but I am not entitled.

Go to the Social Security Office in Columbia - they offer interpreters for 17 different languages. If you cannot speak English - you did not work and contribute to the system; therefore, are not entitled to benefits. The discount Higher Education falls into the same category. Criminals are not entitled to anything, let alone discount education.

Let's face it - Illegal Immigrants are criminals, they must return to their native land; stand in line to receive citizenship, then be an American, speak English, work and pay taxes like the rest of us.

No educational assistance for illegal immigrants (criminals).

Let's see, an 18 year old kid brought here by his parents is a criminal? BS. Let the kid go to school, I'll take an educated kid any day.

Way past time to turn off the magnets for illegal immigrants. No respect for our nation's laws = no respect for America. Casa and their illegal friends follow only those laws they agree with and stick it to those people that follow our immigration laws. Illegal immigrants and those that profit from them need to come clean ---- there is no way to justify their illegal activity.

Paul,
I said nothing about a free ride. Clearly, you have no idea what its like to try to get money for school. Because they are the minority they will get money just for that while at the required community college, then they get in state tuition, and more money finishing their degree at a state college or university. I have to laugh at the affidavit portion of the act because who is going to hold them accountable to that? Shouldn't they already be filing for permanent residency once the high school grants them a degree??? So, I go to high school for four years (not the 3 required by the ACT), work, play sports, while in high school and move on to college with NO parental help at all. I then obtain my career, raise two children, stable marriage, pay taxes, go back to get my masters and still get no help really? I can't get help from our state and federal government unless it's in the form of more student loans and grad loans for a job that saves the health care industry A LOT of money??? Tell me how that makes any sense??? I guess I should apply to Morgan or Howard Univ.??? There's only one college in the state of Maryland that has the program.....a state college.....

PHRN, one should take care when commenting about something they know ablsolutely nothing about. I am the son of an Army sergeant. I hitchhiked everyday to get Harford Junior College because our family of 6 had one car, then I worked for 5 years, then I went to the University of Maryland and graduated with an accounting degree and then I immediately passed the CPA exam and went to work for a national accounting firm. All on my own personal dime, no loans, no parental assistance, no scholarships, just my own money. Started my own business in 1997 and continue operate it, on my own dime, no investors, just my sweat and money. You want to compare notes as to how one got through college, you picked on the wrong. one. Clearly, you didn't know what you were talking about.

Paul you set up the comparison. Your hard work is commendable. I'm simply showing how hardworking people like ourselves should get some assistance if needed and the government should invest its money in some of its own people. No I'm not talking about charity... We both have college degrees and got there through hard work...no one is discounting that.

Paul your story is an admiral one, however you are missing some key ingredients in the equation.

Under the law, if you grow up in Maryland, attend school, graduate and move to say, anywhere across the Maryland line, you would have to pay out of state rates. This does not apply to the illegals.

Paul your quote: "PHRN, no one is asking these kids to have a free ride." The facts as cost factors are $8,416 for instate and $24,831 for out of state. If, as indicated by the gray areas of the law regarding a variety of issues, then who pays? We do, the taxpayers. Another interesting link as to the cost factors of educating illegals is:

http://marylandreporter.com/2011/03/14/costs-of-in-state-tuition-for-illegal-immigrants-could-be-higher-than-projected/

http://latinoinauguralgala2009.com/tag/hispanic-high-school-graduation-rates-illegal-aliens/

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2010/12/09/131939731/don-t-ask-dream-act-has-troubling-loopholes-gop-senate-aide

Do the graduations rates justify this when many U.S. citizens are being turned away for possible scholarships due to a lack of funding.

The absurdity of this bill was best explained in a Sun article where one of the young supporters of the of the bill expressed his desire for its passage and his goal to go to college - in Spanish. It might be a good idea to learn English before attending any U.S. college.

Paul, here is a copy of the bill. One gray area concerns taxes. Please read it. The part that requires those to prove they payed taxes is stricken out. It simply requires them to file a tax return.

That is why I do the research I do. It reveals the hidden agendas of many bills.

http://mlis.state.md.us/2011rs/bills/sb/sb0167e.pdf

Paul this has to do with special interest and the amount of time and money to add another entitlement plan to the mixture. Any endeavor requires the necessary background research and the expenditures of funds to see if such action is warranted.

As an ex military man you should know the defense department does not move forward with a project without prior planning into the cost and necessity of said projects.

Here is your quote: " Wouldn't we if this is an economic issue, rather get the in-state rate than nothing?"

Here are the facts:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/maryland-study-reveals-staggering-increase-of-illegal-immigration-costs-and-voter-dissatisfaction-78141522.html

Study the Baltimore County School Budget and look at the figures.

http://soetalk.com/2011/08/15/4217/

Read today's Sun regarding the county's ongoing budget problems.

Yes Paul this is much more than money. It's about our culture, language, customs, flag and a host of other issues.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2009-06-01/news/0905310045_1_immigrants-latin-america-traditional-values

If you are comparing this to other areas look to California and the overwhelming problems they face.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/19/welfare-tab-children-illegal-immigrants-estimated-m-la-county/

Commanders and leaders mask decisions on facts not emotions.

Buzz, if they don't go to school, you believe the County saves money? I would disagree, albeit very difficult to measure all costs inherent in that. I've read the articles, but this is limited to a very specific area of does an incremental additional person paying in-state tuition rates actually cost the taxpayer anything? Or is a profit recognized from that? If there is an empty chair in that classroom, what are the economic costs to fill it? In my opinion, very minor. But no one has ever documented those facts yet.

Do you really think Pat McDonough is making decisions on facts not emotions?

"The health-care cost of the illegal work force is especially burdensome and is subsidized by taxpayers. To claim Medicaid, you must be legal, but as the Health and Human Services inspector general found, 47 states allow self-declaration of status for Medicaid. Many hospitals and clinics are going broke because of the constant stream of uninsured, many of whom are among the estimated 12 million to 15 million illegal immigrants. This translates into reduced services, particularly for lower-income citizens."

"The principal beneficiaries of our current immigration policy are affluent Americans who hire immigrants at substandard wages for low-end work. Harvard economist George Borjas estimates that American workers lose $190 billion annually in depressed wages caused by the constant flooding of the labor market at the low-wage end." (from the Baltimore Sun)

Exactly my point that I already subsidize their healthcare and now their education...
If you want to be educated great! I'm all for it. People need to come to this country legally, that's where it starts....in my opinion. Paul you are not the only one who has rolled pennies for food.....

I honestly think Pat is basing his decision on this one on the rule of law. I do understand that there is an argument that a child in this situation has broken the law through no decision of their own. I also believe if you reward the person that has broken the law it becomes a reason for others to break the law. That is what makes this state a magnet. If a parent knows they can bring their child to MD and recieve favorable treatment more will do it. Therefore you bring more people breaking the law. Why is that a good idea? Who gets to decide what laws are ok to break and not to break. As an employer does this law make it ok for me to hire someone that it is not legal for me to hire? Does the fact that we are making laws bsed on people breaking the law as far as being employed here what would be so wrong with me hiring people and paying them under the table? Because it is breaking the law? I'm just trying to make a better life for myself and my family. I would be providing income tax to the state based on the fact that I would be claiming the money that I am paying others under the table as my own income because there would be no paper showing it going to anyone else unless I claimed it as casual labor. The workers would be paying taxes in the form of property, gas, and sales taxes so it would be ok right? It's basically the same arguement you just made.

PHRN, enough about pennies as that was a response to your insult to me.

But you are now onto something, want to prevent illegals from depressing wages and taking jobs from legal residents? Start seriously fining the businesses that knowingly hire them. Be prepared for two things though, prices of goods will go up, increased wages, more cost. Secondly you'll never see it passed because big business has such a large influence over legislators. One thing you may not be considering though, as I am guessing that you are a Registered Nurse from your previous posts, how many highly talented foreign doctors are brought into the country legally to take a job that would otherwise be filled by a US citizen? Is that okay with you?

I would suggest to you though not letting them go to college at in-state rates costs us more money than allowing them to do so.

Steven, without the rule of law society disintegrates into chaos.

The Supreme Court has ruled that we must provide an education up to high school. It does not include a college education.

Paul, look at the history of NYC. It had one of the highest crime rates in the nation at one time. It was listed as one of the worst places to live at one time.

Through the efforts of community policing and zero tolerance inroads were made. Speaking of tolerance I would take issue with your assessment as the Mosque debate continues to divide the diversity you speak of.

NY is famous for people turning their backs on witnessing criminal activity and taking no action.

The historical account of the U.S. in the world has yet to be written and it could be that of a nation that tried and failed at ...?

History is dictated by time and events.

I hate to say it, because people of religion are sometimes sensitive, you are right on the mosque issue, the intolerance exhibited there reminds me of what we did to the Japanese in WWII internment camps. Our own citizens were guilty because of their heritage and how they looked and a "sneak" attack didn't help. When you throw in the fear card, everything thinkable can happen.

Regarding crime rates, drugs are expensive.

Study history. This nation experienced a situation that had no precedent. We were a nation of isolationism. December 7th 1941 changed all that in one brief moment. Hindsight is 20, 20.

You are attempting to chart what at the time were uncharted waters. There are many issues that people debate over the actions regarding WW II. Many war crimes, as those committed by the Japanese and the Nazis went unpunished. In fact many war criminals found sanctuary in the U.S. and played the their only viable card, that of countering Communism.

Carpet bombing, incendiary bombing and the ultimate Atomic bombing were all an are still are debated today. Those that debate those topics were not part of the invasion force that was slated to invade Japan. Had that taken place the causality county would have been horrific.

Religion, you speak of religious people being sensitive. More people are killed in the name of religion than any other issue in humane history.

Fear, you bet, read the concepts of Sharia Law, honor killings and a host of other religious practices including pedophilia would cause anyone fear.

We lost the drug war a long time ago. There are human vices that have filled in the gaps. They too are a losing battle.

We have citizens today that are participating in Jihad. Home grown terrorism is the greatest threat this nation faces.

I have studied history, this country will violate civil rights and the constitution in a heartbeat. Latest example = Patriot Act, done in the name of the almighty fear factor, yet again.

Paul stop and think of what you are saying. That almighty fear factor you speak of is as real as the number of citizens that were killed in these attacks.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html

I suggested you study history. Had we been more vigil, aware and informed, maybe some of these attacks could have been avoided.

Would you go into combat without a weapon; leadership you can count on, training that will guide your response while your're being is racked with terror?

What did Russia do prior to the invasion by the Nazis?

At one point, Stalin become so overcome by fear, he failed to speak for one week and locked himself up in a room. When he realized that his fear could result in the death of his nation, he stopped the purges of his military commanders giving them the leeway to fight the Nazi invasion. The rest is history.

At the time of the German invasion of Russia, Stalin was a mass murder based on an unrealistic fear of plots against his rule. His rise to that of a iconic war leader was based on the opposite reaction, which was leadership albeit from a madman.

In the end he was judged one of the great evil men of all time. There is a difference between reality and perception as exemplified by the link I provided. If Stalin would have understood that, history may have been different.

Buzz, look at what you are saying. The basic fundamental rights that has made this country great is the Bill of Rights, start as we have, giving them up so easily in the name of fear, Patriot Act, TSA, McCarthy hearings, internments, Mosques, etc. and we are doomed. I don't agree with Ron Paul much, but he is right on this one. We give up our rights way too easily.

Fear in war is terror that you know awaits you around the bend, telling me all Muslims want to kill me is designed to scare me, for an agenda, thus the false fear, much different than real fear. 19 guys with razor knives have done this to us, amazing.

@ Paul so what Don't you agree about Ron Paul? You say we give up our rights to easy, Do you really think that a Mitt or Obama is gonna stop taking our rights away.
at this point it might as well be a Obama/Mitt ticket as I don't see much of a difference.
Now back to the topic....... come here legal or go home!!! no school no welfare I don't care. The only way to stop it is to stop making reasons to break the law, like well if your were brought here its alright well will give you a pass. also a good friend of mine got his associates degree and wanted to go back and wasn't asking for a break or help and there was a waiting list a mile long ..I wonder if the illegals were booted out if there would be any room for him? also has anyone have any facts about illegals voting? Just wondering because this is going to be on a ballot? so does it have to be " we the legal people" I hope not I would like to think that if its on a ballot then the people vote and get whet they want ....like the slots ...

Paul, Can you please explain how this does not adversly effect wages of those not in the country illegally? "First the wages paid to the "employee" are below market rates because the employee won't report the income."
How is the business owner any more wrong for breaking the law then the "employee" that is breaking the law by living in the country illegally?
Can you help me out on how to do the following? I will need to know how to produce documentation for my audit. We know the IRS is greatly increasing the number of field agents and that isn't being done to mess with those that can afford to fight them.
I'll put my accountant/auditor hat on and attempt to explain how the business owner beats your logic. However, the business owner will still find a way (cheating a second time) to run the deduction for those wages through his books. So although he will pay slightly more income taxes, what he saves in payroll tax matching more than makes up the difference. So it is a win-win for employee-employer and it is a loser for those of us who don't cheat.
Let's not forget those in the country illegally are cheating by being in the country illegally in the first place.

"The biggest cheaters generally are the small business owners who deal in a lot of cash. They simply skim and avoid both income and payroll taxes." Who gets to decide who has the right to cheat and who doesn't?

Buzz, "without the rule of law society disintegrates into chaos."

If we are passing laws in support of those breaking the law how is that not degrating into chaos? If I an in support of this law then wouldn't it be ok for me to employ the unemployable as I'd be in violation of laws by making them eligable for this benefit in the first place? What is that logic?

The Supreme Court has ruled that we must provide an education up to high school. It does not include a college education. The high court has ruled we must support those that are not to be here!! Is that not Chaos?

Paul, "But you are now onto something, want to prevent illegals from depressing wages and taking jobs from legal residents? Start seriously fining the businesses that knowingly hire them. Be prepared for two things though, prices of goods will go up, increased wages, more cost. Secondly you'll never see it passed because big business has such a large influence over legislators."
How about if we stop supporting legislation and legislators that acts as a magnet for illegal persons in our area? Do you think that would have an effect on legislation in the area? Doesn't it seem that we are told Big Business is supposedly the deep pockets of the right, but the left is who pushes for legislation to protect who the right is supposedly the benificiary of even at the cost of wages? Lets keep in mind the more employees you bring to an area the lower the wages go. Look at Montgomery County for that.

"Voter fraud is well documented to not exist in even a minor way. Legislation is done to suppress the turnout of the poor who generally vote Democratic."

Did we not see documentation of voter registration fraud in 2008? Tell me about this legislation to suppress turnout.

Paul, this philosophy is self defeating. It encourages profit above all else and lays the groundwork for organized crime as we saw in NY's Chinatown.

Don't you think that you are just at risk as those workers you speak of. Let's say an illegal starts up a company where his profit margin is much less than your business.

That would put you out of business. My professor friend is an architect and can no longer do business in this country, because he was forced out by people coming into this country for their educations and working for far less than the prevailing wage for this skill.

Companies who educate them also hire them and corner the market. Cheap labor for increased owner profits is a slippery slope to shoddy work, corruption and the ultimate disintegration of the American business man.

The recent towing scandal in the Baltimore City Police Department is the fruit of that mentality.

Paul, how many times a day do we use our ID? Think about it. Cashing checks, using a credit card. buying liquor, singing contracts, and many other ventures involving business.

These seniors you speak of, you mean they are not capable of meeting one of the many requirements of their existence. When they go to the doctors they use ID.

You sound as if the integrity of the system means nothing. Are you a fan of George Soros? Open borders, no boundaries, no laws a pure socialist.

Paul, you'll take an educated kid any day. You had better hurry up based on the latest data.

http://askville.amazon.com/United-States-rank-education-industrialized-nations/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=21721726

The scam here is to get a 1-2% advantage. Below is a left leaning post but accurate for Wisconsin
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/12/05/381885/wisconsin-voter-id-law-may-force-84-year-old-woman-to-pay-200-to-get-a-voter-id/
I think we would both agree that if democrats are pushing something it is good for democrats and if republicans are pushing it is good for republicans. My view is we don't start passing laws to prevent a problem for which there is no documentation that it is occurring. The libertarian in you I think would agree based on some of your other posts?

Paul, on Provo Island you can only perform a job that no native can perform. Know how I know? I like to SCUBA. Is that what we should do here?

Many islands in the Carib have highly protective laws over employment. You have to hire a local unless you can demonstrate the skill does not exist. My wife Scubas as well and I have seen that too. Good policy? Probably not for a free society like ours.

Paul, is that any kin to Fast and Furious, the Banking crisis, the real estate crash. Barny Frank said it could not happen two weeks before it did just that.

You open the door and guess what walks in?

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/international/asia_pacific/view/20120112intelligence_study_glum_on_afghan_war/srvc=home&position=recent

Here are some American heroes.

Go away for a day and look what happens.

Bunker makes me put my boots on to wade through all the BS.

The Towing Scandal in BAltimore City had Zero do do with Illegal aliens. Everyone involved was an American citizen.

Any Architect worth his salt will always have a job and make decent money. Illegal immigration doesn't affect professionals.

"Singing contracts"????

It takes about 1 hour to get a work permit in the Turks and Caicos or if you have a net investment of $125,000. If you invest $500,000 in real estate you get one automatically.

It's - one hour not 1. The rules for writing numbers are below.

Rule one - Spell out single-digit whole numbers. Use numerals for numbers greater than nine.

Examples: I want five copies. I want 10 copies.

Since you helped me with my typo, I wanted to help you with your grammar.

LOL Oh my, That is really funny. After seeing this I have to work or my editing!

2:36 am on Friday, January 13, 2012

Dkennylee, don't feel bad, we all make typos. Armstrong caught a couple of mine, but he forgets he makes mistakes also and you know how that saying goes.

I'll make sure I keep him straight. Every time he makes a mistake I'll remind him. Just trying to be helpful Robert. Judging by some of the words you use, I think you need it.

Paul, You said "we routinely invite highly sought after skills into our country like physicians, scientists, etc. to take positions that might have otherwise gone to a US citizen. This includes students to study at our Universities and medical schools. The island of Nevis in the Caribbean has a medical school of which many students are US citizens that could not get into USA schools.".
Do you think this is a bad thing and why?

Good morning, my point was to highlight some irony. This country doesn't mind bringing in intelligent, skilled, many highly paid, non-citizens to displace our own citizens in jobs and universities, but the unskilled worker sneaking over the border taking low paid, unskilled, not wanted jobs Is despised by many. Interesting.

Not all who come here do so with good intentions. It is not our patriotism that motivates them.

Organized crime groups from Russia, China and a host of other countries find easy pickings in the U.S.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/r/raj_rajaratnam/index.html

Thats A wake up call, Thanks paul so 6000,000 jobs lost to temp visa. Now if we cant fill the jobs I dont have a problem with giving "some" of these temp visas out. Wow I think this is a point that needs to put in the public eye as i dont think many people realize how many jobs we loose to just temp visas. oh my back to reserch ugh....any help on more about the visas would be great very interesting... need more info looks like a late night again ..thanks paul :)

Paul, I'm not for anyone regardless of there skill set being in this country illegally. Many being of higher skill set could be 10%. The main issue we have been dealing with is the fact that there are an awful lot of people in this country that have gotten here illegally or overstayed their documentation. Many of these people have no desire to assimilate. Some are violent criminals. Many are driving down wages and taxing our welfare system.

You find it ironic that this country feels it ok to allow some people into this country that are of a high skill set, and others that are of a lower skill set to work along side citizens, but many despise others invading this country and overwhelming our systems. Many people as it seems you are one of them that don't see the difference. Interesting.

Steven, not true, I am pointing out facts. You use the term "many" very loosely without any support for the definition. I see the difference, both groups come for employment. Sure there are drug runners but that is simply because of the profit motive. They get a high reward for a high risk. Not much different than many on Wall Street, difference is one group tends to be violent, the other takes with a white shirt on while smiling.

Baltimore is the big city west of Dundalk. I can't believe you have never heard of it. One day Bueller, if you ever get out of Dundalk, head west on Eastern Avenue and eventually you will run into it. But be careful, it's full of "those" people.

Paul, When I said many I was quoting you quoting the article that did not define many. How is that MY using the term loosely? One group comes following the laws of a sovereign nation. The other group comes disregarding the laws of a sovereign nation by entering.
Big Government is in bed with wall street. I believe we are both aware of that. I don't see how that makes it a good idea to support people that are breaking the laws of our country by being in it? Can you explain to me where that is a good idea? You stated that you see the difference in letting people in this country legally of different skill sets and not letting people in this country legally. Please explain it to me.

Robert, oh no, are there "many" of those people?

Yes, there are lots of them and they are hiding behind every bush......just waiting to get you. It's a regular "Where the Wild Things Are"!

I repeated what the article said. Here is your quote:
"Many of these people have no desire to assimilate. Some are violent criminals. Many are driving down wages and taxing our welfare system"
Your words not mine? Those are opinions, where are the facts? Then we can have a discussion on what they mean. Thirty years ago while doing auditing I learned a very valuable thing from a supervisor, he said "you can miss little things while doing this audit, but do not miss the elephant in the room". My opinion is, the big bucks are not in chasing the illegals out of school as even the "against" group thinks the cost is $3-10 million per year which presumes the legal would pay the out-of-state rate. I submit to you that the "cost" estimate is high, as I believe "many" could not afford it. If they can afford it, I probably want them to stay in this country as someone in the family is successful and a productive member of our society, albeit not a legal one.
Your other point is the general "rule of law" argument that is used by opposers. There is some validity to that argument, I would suggest to you sending an 18 year old back to wherever they came from after spending at least 3 years here (I'm sure many have been here longer) is inhumane and simply wrong. We must resolve what we do with those here and we must resolve how everyone only gets here legally. Shipping 'em back is not practical and it would be disruptive to our economy.

The law affects less then 100 students.

Paul, I realized you were quoting the article on the original “many”. It was the original not defined variable. That is why I stated “Many” could mean “10%”.

Lets continue line by line.

"Many of these people have no desire to assimilate.” I have to push #1 for English when calling a customer service rep. Lets not forget this: http://www.kvoa.com/news/students-protest-mas-suspension/
How about a video of California students talking about how Cinco de Mayo is their holiday and holding Mexican flags? I actually can’t tell you what day Ireland declares as the birth of their nation. Could be because I consider myself an American.
http://conservativehideout.com/2010/05/07/mexican-students-protest-american-flag-wearing-peers/
Is that fact enough for that issue?

Some are violent criminals. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1347306/posts

“Many are driving down wages and taxing our welfare system"
I quote you, “In my Homebuilding experience it is difficult to find people to hang drywall or pour and finish concrete at the wage the contractor is paying. Thus the magnet for the illegal. Under the table and a lower rate.”
I submit these facts in support of claims. Feel free to discuss what they mean.

The elephant stands clearly on the fact that the argument has been made and followed before for amnesty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986
.......

...............

If we keep supplying magnets for illegal aliens we will keep getting them. If we do things to make them feel unwelcome we wont. I don’t want illegal people paying out of state rates in the state I live in. I don’t want them in the state I live in. I do not have a bad personal relationship with the ones I encounter. I do not feel removing anyone in this country without legal status would be inhumane. People relocate all over the world after being in one place longer then three years. I believe most live through the experience. I do believe we need to secure our borders, but I don’t feel we need to provide for those that don’t have a legal right to be here in any way.

It is distressing to see some folks having so much fun at the unfortunate boondoggling of our tax-paying citizens. I suppose their comfort zone has not been directly and hard hit YET!!!! Or perhaps they are awaiting the arrival of their shallow pockets and will wonder where it all started....and of course the truth is it all started from many different points - not just illegal immigration, but for sure that plays a big money role in it. It is called death by a thousand stings ladies and gents.

Steven he has never provided anything when it comes to being credible. He is good at personal attacks though.

Lorna, people like that never learn, the true mark of immaturity, or if we give him the benefit of doubt, age. Probably about 14 based on is behavior.

Once we can figure out how to treat all people as human beings... equally... fairly... the details will tend to themselves.... until then we are only human, prone to make lots of mistakes. All students should pay the same regardless... a student is a student...education is the deal.

Steven, as I try to ascertain your various positions on immigration matters, a question for you. What do you think of "anchor babies"? These babies, who by rule of law are born in the US to parents of foreigners, who may be here either legally or illegally are granted citizenship status by the US and accorded all rights due a US citizen.

My answer to that is I dont like it but its the law a leagal magnet that would be harder to fix. We need to fix the problems that have created a need for laws like the dream act period. ... What that fix is I dont know but as long as contractors,crabbers,ect hire without being fined or something iys never going to get better (It's)........anyway I say if its on avote and the people that vote are all leagal then it should fail

Legal opps

Steven, you are correct in your issue with anchor babies.

I like to interject facts into the equation and these are some of them in just one city in our country.

http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/parkland-memorial-hospital-in-dallas-illegal-immigrant-problem/

This problem is out of control due in large part to pandering politicians attempting to stay in power. It starts when a situation arises when a particular group starts to form a political power base.

Remember this part of our history?

http://harwich.edu/depts/history/HHJ/iso.htm

In reference to WW II the isolation movement was a strong political force that weakened our ability with regards to self defense.

In one day, December 7th, 1941 that changed and along with it the rapid death of the isolation movement.

Uncontrolled immigration threatens the history of our culture, language and customs. If that happens as we are seeing now, this nation will no longer have the unifying fabric of which the law is a binding part of to hold this nation together.

Look at the number and tone of the comments on this subject. It is dividing us and eroding the culture that formed us.

Many people say it is racist to demand that English be the language of this nation and to that I say:

El componente demográfico también es importante, por ejemplo, en el caso de algunos países europeos que ven disminuida su población nativa por

That puts the entire issue into perspective. Paul, what say you?

How about this.... If you hire a human being that is not from this country you must pay them top dollar... period.
If you are caught not paying top dollar~ then you will be assessed heavily.
You can hire human beings that are from this country at any rate that is acceptable...period.

The demographics of Europe are different than they are here. England for example has a very open immigration policy that welcomes almost anyone. The specifics here are one group, Hispanics, that crosses the border illegally because of the economic opportunities afforded them by business. Right now, those opportunities are poor and the traffic across the border is poor. The current president is exporting illegals at a much higher rate than his predecessor.
Regarding English mandate, I do not say your statement is racist, but one might consider those who make the statement are more likely to be racist than not. That is really hard to calculate how many of our population is racist. I would state that most people have made racist statements, jokes or whatever, including me, but that alone does not make you a racist. IMO, racism is a pattern of conduct, not a statement made.

Traffic across the border is down, "poor" is a bad choice of word.

Steven, I agree with you completely on your stance on illegal immigration. I thought your comments were well constructed and written. I was illustrating a point and it had nothing to do with either being superior or inferior.

The point was meant to show what I believe is a liberal argument, of which many are not based on fact but rather emotions.

The posting of the language was meant to show just how important it is to speak one unifying language. I had over 300 choices to choose from.

Buzz, your point is exactly where we agree to disagree, I believe conservatives act on emotions on this issue, not facts. The only thing I add, politicians with hidden agenda are the ones stirring the pot.

Paul here is your quote: "I do not say your statement is racist, but one might consider those who make the statement are more likely to be racist than not." If you look at the definition that would be classified as an oxymoron. Your perception is that it is not and in your continuing reference it is.

Again, I refer to emotions. Again, I say study history.

Case in point to your comment. How many languages are spoken in this nation. The answer is around 300. Now which of those 300 languages are you going to exclude? If you fail to print tax forms, government information disseminated on any topic along with all presidential addresses to the nation in all of these languages, are we as a nation of racist?

Tell me which languages are you going to exclude from food labels, instructions, education, medical care, just to name a few. There are not enough resources in this nation to provide for that issue. And by the way, who pays?

Does the fact the certain ethnic groups fail to assimilate into our society and culture make them racists.

Again, I say to you study and research. This is Europe as we speak.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2012/01/13/sp-cuts-ratings-on-france-italy-other-european-countries/

Now if immigration is such the panacea for the ills of society, then why the economic threatening down turn in Europe and this nation?

http://www.aina.org/news/20070606133713.htm

No, here are examples of oxymorons:
act naturally, random order, original copy, conspicuous absence, found missing, alone together, criminal justice, old news, peace force, even odds, awful good, student teacher, deafening silence, definite possibility, definite maybe, terribly pleased, ill health, turn up missing, jumbo shrimp, loose tights, small crowd, and clearly misunderstood

Mine is a simple matter of logical reasoning: Not all who make the statement are racists, but racists are more likely to make the statement.
300 languages, as you well know, once a percentage of the population becomes significant it is practical and cost effective to accommodate them.
I have never said that immigration is the panacea for the ills of our society, those are your words, I am saying we have a problem here, let's deal with it.
I have yet to hear from you what is your solution to,the 11,000,000 undocumented/illegals living and most working in this country?

Buzz, a statement is a singular act, a series of statements becomes a pattern of conduct. That is the point I am making. It took Hitler through a series of acts and statements to accomplish his heinous goals. I have "friends" who find it necessary to flood my inbox with clearly racist emails regarding our President, some are jokes, others are not and most are simply offensive.

I believe I can recognize racism when I hear it.

Paul, this is your quote: "once a percentage of the population becomes significant it is practical and cost effective to accommodate them."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/02/immigration-costs-fair-amnesty-educations-costs-reform/

You say this process is cost effective?

"Mine is a simple matter of logical reasoning:" Based on your quote is it logical to assume that those who disagree with you are racists? Are you advocating open boarders as part of your solution. You have made it quite clear that you advocate little restrictions entering this country.

Yes there is a problem here, and it begins with a violation of the law. Read the law. It is against that law to enter this country illegally.

You mentioned 400,000 deportations but did you realize that based on that number there are over 100,000 more entering this country. That logic does not seem to work.

http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/arizona_fact_sheet.pdf?docID=4841

There is a solution and it is the law. The law still states that it is as crime to enter this country illegally.

Answer this question, how many U.S. troops are overseas protecting the foreign sovereignty of other nations and what is the cost factor? How many of our military personnel have been killed protecting and fighting for these countries?

My solution, enforce the law, or change it. Don't ignore it becuase then you fall into the trap of which other laws are we going to pick and chose.

"Based on your quote is it logical to assume that those who disagree with you are racists? Are you advocating open boarders as part of your solution. You have made it quite clear that you advocate little restrictions entering this country."

Again misreading logic, making the statement does not make you racist, but racists would most likely make the statement. Perfectly clear. Racists would most likely make such a statement, but clearly not all who make the statement are racist.

Regarding my statement regarding deportations, that is many more than Bush did and it is as many as they can do based on the funding by Congress.

Regarding your comment about the military, although I don't see it as germane to this issue, one is too many dead and regretfully conservative Republicans for President ( except Ron Paul) seem to wish to engage in even more. I did not support the Iraq War and do not support our continuing involvement in Afghanistan either. Where we provide protection for other countries, they need to pay us for it every plug nickel it's costs us to be there. As the Penatgon's budget is about 700 billion dollars, I do not know the amount allocated to foreign involvement.

Buzz, what is your answer to the 11,000,000 here now? That is the question?

Paul you claim to know racism when you see it. Please comment on this, one of the late Ron Smith's guest's on his WBAL Radio program. Rather interesting interview.

Please make sure you listen to it and articulate your response as to the content and facts.

http://www.wbal.com/article/73770/13/template-smith/

I find this an interesting comment, "my inbox with clearly racist emails regarding our President, some are jokes, others are not and most are simply offensive."

Look up some of the negative comments about President Bush and tell me what you found?

By the way, I did not vote for Bush.

You forget there are two sides to a debate and the other side is not always racists.

I do suggest you look at what the remaining 6 Republican candidates for president look like. White Anglo Saxon males, just saying.

Buzz, gotta go cook chili for The Game tomorrow, catch you on the flip side. Go Ravens, temps will be 37 with a 10 mph breeze! Ouch!

"Perfectly clear. Racists would most likely make such a statement, but clearly not all who make the statement are racist." How did you come to that conclusion and what is the basis based on some factual data. That is a profound comment without a foundation of support.

"Regarding my statement regarding deportations, that is many more than Bush did and it is as many as they can do based on the funding by Congress." I agree, but that still does not change the numbers. The numbers tell the truth, rhetoric does not.

One of the largest death tolls of any war in history was that of the U.S. Civil War, fought mainly by whites to abolish slavery. You left out that part.

"Where we provide protection for other countries, they need to pay us for it every plug nickel it's costs us to be there." You left our Korea. Sending our troops overseas to fight and die for these reasons is applicable, when we do not secure our own borders.

Speaking of payment, who pays for the military lives lost and the devastating injuries suffered by our wounded warriors?

The issue of the 11,000,000 plus illegals is well documented in a variety of remedies presented. I do not believe in granting amnesty. Too many immigrants in this country that followed the law deserve better and should be honored for their commitment to honesty. It's the American way of which the law is the very fabric of that way.

Paul, you are as gentleman, and I commend your military service. I love political discourse and the conversations that ensue.

It's always a pleasure to engage in thought provoking topics that keep our minds sharp no matter which side of the coin you are on.

Had to move down here when I found a typo. Fortunately I was able to copy. paste and re-submit before the bell tolled.

If the Ravens play as good as the wit of you last comment, we have nothing to worry about. A good hearty laugh is great for the soul.

Whatever happened to McDoughnut's lawsuit against Montgomery College?

It was bounced. More ineffectiveness from the usual subjects.

http://insidemc.montgomerycollege.edu/showStory.php?id=2934

it is interesting to note however, that the college had an independent study conducted which found out that granting instate tuition to undocumented immigrants actually saves tax dollars.

"... that the college had an independent study conducted which found out that granting instate tuition to undocumented immigrants actually saves tax dollars."

That was Armstrong's quote now where is the evidence? The word is illegal immigrants under the law.

Here is one link.

http://www.aim.org/special-report/casa-de-maryland-the-illegal-immigrants-acorn/

Here is another link that does not agree with Armstrong.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/maryland/2011/03/md-dream-act-would-cost-millions

How do you take anyone seriously when they continue to slur people's names and accuse others of being bigots and racists? The sad part is that they are not intelligent enough to comprehend it.

I'll keep posting this so people understand the meaning of what a juvenile delinquent is.

http://cockeysville.patch.com/blog_posts/nbc-new-hampshire-republican-debate-ii-a-few-more-sparks-signifying-little-change-in-romney-prospects?ncid=following_comment

Scroll down to the second cardboard head.

He likes dishing it out but can't stand it when he is called out. Mr. McDonough is an elected official and even if you don't agree with him at least act like an adult and show some respect.

Perhaps the Prime Minster of Australia said it all in last years speech - this speech should solve all the issues regarding the Dream Act. Australia says NO -- Second Time she has done this!

She sure isn't backing down on her hard line stance and one has to appreciate her belief
in the rights of her native countrymen. A breath of fresh air to see someone lead...

Australian Prime Minister Ms. Julia Gillard repeats her 2011 speach.

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT... Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!'

Continued - 'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

Paul, you said "I believe conservatives act on emotions on this issue, not facts."
You also said "I just have trouble punishing a 17-18 year old kid trying to make him/herself a productive educated member of our society by going to colllege, you don't. That's the argument in a nutshell, isn't it?"
You forgot to mention we are talking about someone that has broken the law verse someone that has not.
I said "If you want to go to college here I have no problem with that. Fill out a student VISA and apply as any foreign national is supposed to do"

It seems to me that your entire premise is based on emotion and mine on fact. Do you not see it that way?

Paul, Do you see this as racist?
the school officially sponsors a Mexican nationalist group, MEChA, as one of the Live Oak’s extra-curricular clubs, alongside the chess and drama clubs. MEChA’s mission is, “as a nationalist movement we seek to free our people from the exploitation of an oppressive society that occupies our land.”

Paul, i hope this answers some of your concerns about by leanings on race.

I voted for Michael Steele. I would also vote for this man if I had the opportunity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_West_%28politician%29

When the basis of a foundation, as in the law of this land, begins to erode, the binds that tie us into a nation begin to fray.

I'm reading a book on the subject now and it's an eye opener.

You truly are a Maroon Bunker. Allen West was courtmartialed. He is an idiot.

Just because you voted for a Black Stooge like Steele doesn't mean you aren't racist

Now let us look at Mr. Armstrong's words of wisdom and study them, What grade school did you attend, because they apparently did not teach you how to write?

Take for example your use of the word "Maroon", here is the an excerpt that describes that word:

"A term of derision often uttered by Bugs Bunny when referring to an interaction with ..."

I would say Bugs Bunny is about your intellectual speed.

Let's go further because there is more Armstrong grammatical wisdom.

You do not capitalize the word "Maroon." It is not a proper noun and neither are your choice of words referring to Mr. Steele - "Black Stooge." That to is not a proper noun. It is called a racial slur, a bigoted remark.

You are exactly what YOUR OWN words reflect, an uneducated racists who never graduated from high school or accomplished anything in their life and who's only way of getting attention is to attack people personally.

I would suggest you at the very least read the material before you begin your racists attacks. Here is a quote from the the article on the Congressman: "The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, ..." Your statement was misleading.

Since I would guess your eduction is limited, you might want to refer to this link.

http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/5-ways-to-win-an-argument/

I almost forgot, a period goes after your use of the word "racist" as it signifies the end of a sentence.

Buck here is what amazes me. It's like when a crime victim lays in the street and people walk by and do nothing. But on sites like this where is the outage when remarks like his are made?

Look at Paul, myself, you and Steve. We may not all agree, but we act civilized. We act like educated adults and not children. How degrading it is for this site when people like Armstrong are not held accountable.

If a man sees someone attacking another who is defenseless, what should they do? Stand on the sidelines with their hands in their pockets.

I watch Bill O'Reilly, who by the way holds the number one cable spot for the last 11 years, no small feat. It's called the no spin zone. He is not afraid to take on people like Armstrong because they are detrimental to everything intelligent people stand for but more specifically the integrity of this site.

Armstrong only goes after those people who have identities, because you can see them, they exist.

I will and have stopped bullies all of my life. That is why I became and still am weightlifter. I stood up for those who could not physically defend themselves.

Freedom of speech is one thing, accusing others of being racists with words like 'Black Stooge" is another.

There was someone on this site not long ago who use defamatory language against blacks and I was the only one who stood up and demanded the he be dealt with.

Steven, regarding the comments on the link about the congressman, I did not say anything on the wording of the charges, I quoted an excerpt form the link.

There is a difference a to what I say and what I quote. Your issue should be with the link.

Steven the only way I would gamble with Armstrong would be if it did not involve taxpayers money and I knew his existence was real.

His character lacks any creditability.

Steven, no apology required. This is part of my entire point regarding adults who engage in robust political discourse. I make assumptions many times and find out later that I may not be completely accurate.

As I have stated, it is always a pleasure to debate with one who is educated and articulate.

You are correct about Mr. Armstrong. I do not believe that he is capable of realizing that his constant derogatorily comments cement him into a category of adolescent behavior whereby no one will take him seriously.

I believe that people like that can only validate their existence by attacking those who actually exist.

He has made some astounding claims about his life but when asked to provide any documentation, he runs and hides which is interesting because he had no trouble in going back and finding a case I was involved with in 1978.

Regarding the child being born into this country; under current criminal law say a son is storing stolen good in his parents home, they can be charged even though the parents were not aware of the situation. The parents can be charged with receiving stolen goods.

If you are in a motor vehicle and there is contraband inside that vehicle, the passengers can also be charged.

Immigration in both forms is very divisive as represented by this remark in June of 1998, by Mario Obledo of the Mexican-American Legal defense and Education Fund on a radio program in which he stated, "California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should leave. If whites don't like it, they should go back to Europe."

He was awarded the Medal of Freedom by Bill Clinton.

A majority of migrants moving into California are tax consumers while those leaving in large numbers are taxpayers.

California has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. They also have the highest tax rates in the country. Maryland is ranked 5th. They are also a sanctuary state.

"A majority of migrants moving into California are tax consumers while those leaving in large numbers are taxpayers"

Source please.

Typo, Charlton, sorry.

From the book, "Suicide of a Superpower," FAIR and the San Francisco Chronicle.

Eighty-two percent of Californians believe they state is headed in the wrong direction.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/opinion/28brooks.html

A review of the book by FOX News is linked below.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/opinion/28brooks.html

Paul, I do not follow party lines, only issues. The book is a valid source. You may not agree with it, but it is a source.

A valid source is based on the credentials of the author, and Buchanan has the following: presidential candidate, multiple best selling author and currently a commentator on MSNBC which by all accounts is not conservative.

Those are some serous credentials.

Speaking of big money, how much has the president raised. His goal is $1 billion. That ain't no chump change.

I find this rather ironic he appoints Jeff Imlet, the CEO of GE, as the job czar. Interesting that GE did not pay any federal taxes and Imlet shipped many of GE's jobs over seas.

http://www.businesstoday.org/online-journal/what-ge%E2%80%99s-tax-bill-or-lack-thereof-actually-means

Buzz, Buchanaon is a former commentator, it appears his last book has created issues.

I find it are to believe tat you cannot see the big money behind Republican behavior. If so, I am disappointed.

Typo, hard to believe, daggum iPad.

I like to look at motives, mine are pure. I realize no benefit from believing in climate change, the Koch Brothers do by being deniers and selling the same to you. I always believe in looking to the underlying motives behind behavior. Tat is where the answer s,

iPad typos!

Paul I said I do not follow party lines. I ran for office as d D. I have been a D all of my life.

The book is a good read, because other sources are confirming the issues in California. Some of the data coming out of that state is shocking.

Just the ethnic gang wars in the California are a huge problem. Think about it, 49% of people in the country do not pay federal taxes because they don't make enough money to qualify.

I have always been about the issues. I was a cop for 39 issues and facts matter.

George Soros advocates open borders. He forgot about the 7,000 languages spoken in this world along with the terrorism issues.

Stand in line at the local grocery store and see how many people pay with Independence cards. We have shipped our jobs and futures overseas in favor of cheap goods. You see where that is getting us.

Our debt is now 100% of our GDP. We are on the verge of finical collapse. We can't even afford to pay the interest on the deficit.

Human's will continue to gravitate to like kind in everything from sports, sex, politics and anything else under the sun I missed.

Buzz, who has chosen to ship our jobs overseas and wishes that to continue. The system rewards corporations who keep their profits overseas. Who likes that and wishes to continue that? I'll give you a hint, it begins with a R.

Lorna, the Rs controlled both until 2006. Which party do you think supports the working class, if you believe the Rs support them, Santa Claus will be at your house tonight.

I find this rather ironic the president, a Dem. appoints Jeff Imlet, the CEO of GE, as the job czar. Interesting that GE did not pay any federal taxes and Imlet shipped many of GE's jobs over seas.

http://www.businesstoday.org/online-journal/what-ge%E2%80%99s-tax-bill-or-lack-thereof-actually-means

Paul read this.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2013264531_bruce27.html

Lorna, I saw your question regarding Mr, Armstrong and I have several theories. I am by no means a doctor or a clinician on this issue, but I think there are numerous sings that may shed some light on this issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatred

Self loathing could play a role in his behavior. He generally picks targets that have a documented existence. In a sense his personal attacks act as a certain empowerment. Like children do, he makes such wild accusations and taunts, he almost assures himself a response.

Rather than attempt to take the high road as I think most intelligent people would, he chooses time and time again to make those vitriolic remarks. His comments have on several occasions been deleted.

He will not respond to any question about his own background even when attacking another's existence. His own self loathing may come form an issue with low self esteem. He has made some wild accusations about his claim on such issues of fighting in three wars, speaking six languages and having three college degrees, but I think it is obvious we can discount those issues based on his ongoing behavior.

I have given him a variety of ways to provide some sort of corroboration but time and again he refuses.

I also thought that anyone that goes to great attempts to hide their existence may have problems that require them to remain in the shadows.

No Bunker you aren't and every post let's us know you are a big idiot. You dodged the draft and spent 39 years in a job with not one promotion.

What do you want to bet that you will not respond when asked what service did you perform for your country? At least I did something for 39 years. You have done nothing except taking our tax dollars. You pay any taxes? Still living in the shadows, I see.

What kind of job do you have or are you on a entitlement program? You always have the answers, let's here one now. Isn't it past your curfew?

I'll take my 39 years as a police officer over anything you have ever done in your life.

See if you have any guts and can provide an answer about yourself. I will bet you run and hide like always.

What kind of opening sentence did you write, if makes no sense?

Come on Armstrong, lets here you all of your cheap lies about what a hero you are? Let's hear more about your three combat tours in all of these various wars you claim to have fought in?

Apparently as I am a new poster, RA and BB have a long history of going at each other! ;-))

Wow Paul...the hidden agendas you speak of are now all being filtered down to us by the "rich!!" I always thought they were topics filtered down by the so-called "left." As for the wars you speak of ---got a question, just curious what do you think Bush should have done immediately after 9/11? Just curious.

Lorna, Paul once made the statement to me he knows racism when he sees it. With Armstrong he is looking at it right in the eye and closes his.

Paul you once were very upset that you received vile e-mails in your inbox about the president and here is a man calling two black leaders names, like the words - "Black Stooge", and you say nothing. Where is your indignation now.

I always suggested to study, be informed and you failed your first big test.

Click on Armstrong's name and then click on comments and read my friend. Keep reading. That is your dream act in progress. The future of your utopia.

Do you know Armstrong believes in euthanasia for angry white people? Did you read the link I attached several times about his remarks that violate the terms of use and how many times his remarks have been deleted.

Paul your comments do not bode well for your ability to be objective when you look right at something and can't see, even after you claim to know it.

Buzz I am very objective, but I am beginning to question your objectivity. I have no agenda. I recognize RA for what he is, a democratic zealot. I don't justify personal attacks nor do I respond to them unless they are directed at me. Yes, I recognize racism all of the time, you as a former police officer must have seen it within your ranks I hope.
Lorna, I am one of the 1% and I see it, sadly they have you fooled.
I notice no one has yet to respond to my point, the very rich are buying you. Do you see it.

PS, why are you still awake?

This thread has gotten very long, why can't the Patch sort posts by most recent, I have to page down all the time. It's a pain on my iPad! Annoying!

Paul, what is he? Did you go back as do as I suggested and read his remarks. Are you unwilling to admit that you really might not no as much about racism as you think?

I'm a big boy and can take the heat, but a case in point - that you can read, was involving a statement he made of accusing me of being the leader of the Dundalk Klan.

It is easy for you to take me to task, even though I pride myself on the use of facts, but it goes right over your head and you still can't say what this person is?

Paul do you self a favor, read those remarks I asked you to and then the word might not get stuck in your throat.

You don't mind sticking up for those like Armstrong, but when confronted with the truth, you turn the other way.

Bedtime folks, long Ravens Day, stadium was electric. Go to sleep with this last thought, watch the money, it will lead you to the truth.

You are right about bedtime... over and out!

Buzz, I have no need to defend you from RA, he speaks to you, not me. As I have only within the last few days posted here I don't know your history with him, and frankly I don't care. I speak what I believe are facts and then discuss them, I really don't care about personal attacks on character unless directed at me. From either side.

Now this is still going to take a while... but I believe that the direction is becoming clear.
The majority are beginning to awaken... a long slow process of re-education. The 1 % will lose momentum.. or are losing some of the greed driven edge. There is nothing left to back their perceived wealth. The more that you own, the more you stand to lose as this re- balance blossoms. How much stuff does any human being need to accumulate before being snuffed naturally by the rest of the universe. What ever happened to the Roman 1 % ??

I still believe that all students should pay the same rate for education, and that those enrolled in, and paying for their own education should be left well alone.. most of todays problems can be attributed to the one~ two punch of greed & lack of education... the combination that bred public apathy and the 1 % over many years.
Good news..... Rome will fall again... it's falling....

Paul, the scolding part was said in jest. I do think you are failing to see your own logic.

Listen to your thought process in your comments.

"... I have no need to defend you from RA, he speaks to you, and not me."

Does the Dream Act speak to you? It has nothing to do with you and yet you are defending it relentlessly. As a solider would your turn your back on a crime committed by a peer? Would you stand by and say nothing with the excuse of it doesn't involve me?

You brought the topic of racism up AND IT IMPACTS US ALL! You don't seem to mind pointing out your perceptions of it when it fits your agenda, but fail to recognize when it does not.

Another disturbing quote: " ... I really don't care about personal attacks on character unless directed at me."

That is interesting since in our earlier conversations on the Dream Act were based on issues I raised, you inferred that the information I was providing was racists based. Those exchanges were not personal in any way so how did you come to that conclusion. Ah yes, I remember, "you know racism when you see it."

There are two issues here; failing to take a stand against overt racism only promotes it and encourages those too continue to use it, and it destroys the integrity of this site by diminishing the articulate comments on this and any other topic.

If the context of your comments are true, the Dream Act has nothing to do with you, then my question is why are you so engaged?

Buzz, I saw your jest. I giggled. What has gone on between you and RA is between the two of you. It has denigrated into a personal issue that has gone beyond the bounds of discourse. If, and when, I am attacked as the two of you do to each other, I will choose to ignore the attacks or stop reading this blog. RA has clearly very strong left leaning positions, many of which I probably agree with, his need to go after you I am sure did not occur overnight. There is history of which I am not privy, nor do I wish to be.
Regarding the Dream Act, the discussion is not a one on one discussion. It is about a public policy issue and I have strong feelings about that type of issue.

What areas of the country have been controlled by democratic administrations historically. Can we look at Detroit? We can stay closer to home. Baltimore. The Democratic party has been in control of Maryland for a very long time. It's not like the Rebublican party can stop a thing that is forced on them. I'll meet you in the balcony and we can watch it happen. I've seen it. What are we discussing here? Education. The best way to empower your people is with knowledge. How are the public schools in Baltimore? Paul? Can you here me know?

"Buzz, I saw your jest. I giggled." Another of Paul's quotes, "RA has clearly very strong left leaning positions, many of which I probably agree with,"

Paul giggle at this, and if you agree with these kinds of comments then where does that put you? According to your own words - right in the same category. You like gutter talk Paul?

"Just because you voted for a Black Stooge like Steele doesn't ..." RA on 1-15. Paul, you think black leaders are stooges? Doesn't that make you a racist?

"Are you part of Bunker's Dundalk Klan? Posted by RA on 1-7

"Your case of the Red Ass is showing." RA 12-17

"I saw a fat lady on the Beltway eating Chik-fil-a while she was driving today. You don't think for one minute she wasn't distracted!!" RA 12-14 Paul since you agree with what you say is a lot of RA leanings, you have something against overweight people, like discrimination.

"Wipe that Brown Spot off your nose." RA 12-11

This comment has been deleted. Patch 12-10

"One you are in the ring getting the shit kicked out of you and the other one you are just a poser." RA on 12-7

"" WTF does that mean????" RA on 12-6

"I am surprised the guy didin't die from a heart attack first. He only weighed like 400 lbs." RA referring to the killing of a police officer, comment on 12-4

"Save the "Police work is dangerous business" for your boyfriends at the gym." RA 14-4

"Ha Ha Ha look at the picture. It's 25 White People." RA 11-25

Paul...and so I agree regarding motives of some of the hugely wealthy...Soros is an example of such a person that you may be including in reference. Power to rule---via the bank book, media, politics, etc. and we the workerbees get to wait in the wings for results - good or devastating. I think there is, in fact, an awakening and the powers you refer to are a little bit concerned....as well they should be. Perhaps they may smirk at the idea that the people will take back their government...we shall see. Time is of the essence...no doubt about it honey child!

Lorna, some background on Soros.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42674

He seems to forget that with over 7,000 different languages spoken in the world and a 196 countries on the planet, doing business might be a tad difficult.

He only shares his wealth if it fits his agenda. Some nations feel he is his a criminal in his manipulation of their currency.

I bring Monsieur Soros into the light only because I feel his agenda of pure unbridled power is purposefully in conflict with the U.S.A. thriving as a capitalistic country. He seems to hit from all angles The political folks in our country who have his "ear" and he "theirs" deserve more scrutiny and, with Jack Russel terrior type focus on the prize, 2012 will be the year such scrutiny will reveal the real truth, big time!!! And so Paul, surely Monsieur Soros is included in your reference regarding wealthy folks that bear scrutiny.

Paul, I have heard of the Koch brothers - not to familiar though. Can easily come up to speed. Just would very much like your take on Soros!

Yikes! type....to should be too! :)

Paul, not all of those comments were directed at me. You forgot what I told you. I am neither left or right but focus on the issues. I am not the only person commenting on this site, so it impacts all of us, except in your case.

You are a business owner. Would you allow that kind of conduct to be associated with your business. If that person used that kind of language in front of you, your family, friends, cohorts, you would stand there silent? If you did than how is one supposed to respect you.

Letting go of that banana leads to the very issues you bring up, because based on your philosophy you want to change a lot of things that have noting to do with you.

The issues you should be concerned about you never mention, i.e. county government, tax rates for businesses, the PUD process, the budget and so on.

"He only has one vote, one voice, sometimes you just have to let go of the banana."

Some of the greatest despots in the world had one voice in the beginning.

May be these guys would not have gone where they did if others spoke up instead of burying their heads in the sand.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-02/koch-brothers-flout-law-getting-richer-with-secret-iran-sales.html

Buzz, let go of the RA banana, there is more important stuff to deal with.

Koch brothers, like many of the .1% were born into it, didn't earn it, I did.

Paul ...your consistent hitting on the wealthy brings me to the question...do you suspect there is a steady movement on the left side of the fence to undermine this wonderful country and to in a sense maneuver us to end up as the personal plantation of a left wing government and those folks digging in to run it..if they possibly can? Castro did....or do you think we are too big to "fail" in that sense? Or do you think I am way off base on this?

Oooops, better take a break. My typos are multiplying.

Simply off base to answer your question. I always look to someone's motives to understand their position. I sincerely believe you think your motives are pure. I do not question them. But I do believe your motives have been influenced by those with money who through propaganda attempt to influence you through emotional issues. 95% or more of climate scientists will tell you global climate change is real, but what do you believe and why? Fox news will tell you don't tax the job creators, what do you believe and why? Fox news will tell you the Health Care bill s ad for you, what do you believe and why. Dig deep into yourself and be honest, why do you believe what you believe? This is a deeply personal question for you to sincerely look at the answers. Not politics, just self introspection. It is hard to examine your own core beliefs and how you got there.

Paul, now you are making sense. Once you use your real name, you become a target. I have never minded a good fight - not necessarily in the physical sense, but I prefer to do so in a level playing field.

Your real focus should be on local government as your livelihood depends on it.

Interestingly, I received a private e-mail regarding RA whom now I think I can identify. There are those good people still out there who still believe in acting like adults.

As I said it is always easy to pick on those who stand up for what they believe, but yet another to bushwhack them by throwing a rock and then hiding.

My father once told me to go fight some older kid who was picking on my smaller brother. I got my butt whipped but learned that if you don't stand up to bullies and defend yourself, that only gives credence to their conduct.

I can tell you are a bit tepid about the possibility of what lies ahead, but just remember the shoe might now begin to be on the other foot.

You understand my position, I could use a fake name but that is not part of my character. But because I fully understand the political and bureaucratic processes in play I cannot comment on items that might affect my business side which may result in retribution on business projects. Nor can I comment on items that affect my activities on the charitable side. Sadly, I must play the game, that is our country/county.

Bart and Steve, it is easy for both of you to make those comments because neither of you are the victims of such vile attacks and lies.

This is Pauls latest comment when I suggested he focus his issues in BC due to his type of business: "but I have a small problem, as I use my real name, I have to use caution."

You see gentlemen the shoe may now be on the other foot.

I have been writing for news papers, magazines, TV and other venues for many years. I have always prided my self on my creditability in dealing with the facts. I still have a ongoing working relationship in this area. If what I wrote was not based on facts why have I not been sued? That would be the quickest way to silence me.

I am an easy target because my life is a matter of public record. It is easy to throw a rock at someone and then go run and hide. That takes no courage.

Bill O'Reilly said recently he spent many years being viciously attacked by others but he never backed down. He stood his ground and fought back as any man would. The result is he has had the number one cable rated show on TV.

If you want to criticize me than I challenge you both to step up to the plate and let your actions speak as loud as your words.

It is interesting you choose to critize me and yet nothing is said about Mr. Armstrong. I find that rather interesting.

By the way, I received a private e-mail on the true identity of Mr. Armstrong and it is very interesting.

Lorna, I think Paul believes the right has bought the government. His answer to it if I read what he says correctly is Mr. Soros and other well intentioned people like him are pulling their resources for us to educate us that we need to grow the government so they can take care of us from the Koch boys and the nasty 1%ers that were born into money. Correct me if I’m wrong.

How about you just give me a cheap education Paul

Sixteen of the nation’s 50 largest cities had graduation rate lower than 50 percent in the principal school district serving the city. Those with the lowest graduation rates include Baltimore (41 percent). http://www.americaspromise.org/Our-Work/Dropout-Prevention/Cities-in-Crisis.aspx “Similarly, every high school dropout represents not only a failure on the part of a school and an individual, but a larger failure of society to lead our children to success in education.” — Arne Duncan, U.S. Secretary of Education

It depends on who you talk to, or whose data you rely on. The data can be easily manipulated. In 2007, when the economic downturn began, the U.S. Bureau of Labor statistics reported that nearly 60 percent of high school dropouts were unemployed or not in the labor force. In our reporting we have found that dropouts 25 years and older, for example, often want to come back to get a GED - which is the closest thing to a diploma - but most give up because their reading and math skills are so poor. Many say it's probably not worth coming back and they would rather wait till they're 62 to live on Social Security. Also, one interesting trend is that more and more companies, big and small, won't even consider you if you don't have a high school diploma or a GED. And according to a couple of labor market studies, six out of 10 jobs today require at least two to four years of college. http://www.npr.org/2011/07/24/138653393/school-dropout-rates-adds-to-fiscal-burden

Paul, I'm not so sure you are speaking totally against your own economic interest.
Henry Ford wanted to keep the price of his new automobile low so that more people could buy it, therefore, he would make more money.
It is important that all our people get a good education. A good education means jobs, and keeping said people out of jail.
Speaking of jail, the privatization of the correctional industry is a real problem for the country. If there is a profit to be made in any industry, there will be a lobbyist whispering into the ear of a politician to increase the business.
Look at the Chester Upland Schol district of Pennsylvania. The District has had to make so many payouts for Charter Schools (Private Industry) that the municipal school district is bankrupt, the teachers are working for free in order to keep the schools open. These un - or undereducated young people will continue to be a burden on society for the rest of their lives.
I have been following a lot of what you have written, and even though I don't agree with everything, I think we'd all be better off if more of the 1% thought like you.

Bart, how far would you go to defend your family? He is relentless in his attacks. No one is going to tell me that if he made it a personal matter with any may your family that you would not react.

If this involved their good name and yours, you just ignore it! For how long? The back and forth you speak of never ends. He follows me around like a lost sheep.

I now know what I'm dealing with which will level the playing field.

I tried to ignore him and it did nothing.

Buzz Bueller = Viet Nam War Draft Dodger.

Men were getting killed. He was hiding in his cubbyhole.

Taunting....a perfect description of what Sir Robert does...maybe even for a living.

Well Paul...I get it honey child...you have just put a "halo" upon Mr. Soros' head. How convenient... The folks who are part of the 1% on the left get a pass....nonee,nonee, boo, boo..You have surprised me.

Paul, what is that suppose to mean? Set me straight on this? You think this is good.

I tell you what, with your permission how about I inform the folks on who you are, your businesses name, your titles and a photo? You won't mind and maybe RA can defend you or why don't you come out with it yourself. People might even respect you. If it's so good than its a - no brainer.

The people have a right to know don't they. That would give you comments a certain creditability.

You don't think I sat in that cubbyhole for 39 years and did not learn a thing or two.

Taunting My fingers just went CRAZY with that one huh?

Delete
Paul Amirault
7:54 am on Tuesday, January 17, 2012
Steven, I will one last time to explain my position on the Dream Act. Please read through every word before hitting Reply.

The situation is this, we have kids in this country who are here because their parents brought them. I am sure that you as a 5 or 10 year old would go anywhere your parents took you. The parents crossed the border illegally. The parents came to Maryland. You as a child quickly learn English because children have that ability that adults don't. You are enrolled in Maryland schools, you like it, you become a pretty good student. You graduate from high school with a good GPA. Now many of your friends start applying for college and ask you "where are you going to school" because they recognize your good grades. You say "I can't go to college". They ask "why?" You say "I found out my parents are illegal immigrants thus making me an illegal immigrant and we cannot afford out-of-state tuition." that has nothing to do with the "rule of law" which I will debate you anytime anywhere, it is called being a human being. Can we help everyone, no, this one is easy.

"... we cannot afford out-of-state tuition." that has nothing to do with the "rule of law".

Then why is this a topic? Why the referendum? Because it has everything to do with the law.

How many CITIZENS, you know the unemployed one's losing their homes can't afford this bill also. Anybody speak of them? Did you know the veterans of our U.S. military are near the top of this list? I thought not!

As for paying taxes, not quite. It simply states they must file.

The voters will decide this issue and that is the way it should be.

You paint a heart wrenching story Paul. It is full of emotion and I really do understand your passion in the subject. My parents did uproot me and move me when I was 5. I didn’t have my two front teeth at the time. I knocked them out jumping off a swing thinking I was Superman and could fly. I was a very fast runner at that age and could out race everyone in my kindergarten class that started two months after we moved.

You are absolutely right. I do believe that just because it is not your fault does not change the fact that it happened and this is where we are. It is a shame the parents did not come into this country legally. That does not change the fact. The difference in our thoughts is that you feel we should ignore the fact that laws were broken and let the child continue as if it never happened. I feel that the law was broken and those that did so need to face that fact. Maybe you should write Mr. Soros a letter and ask him for a little bit of that Billion from shorting the pound to make up the difference in tuition rates.

You are absolutely right. Getting people to see that laws were broken and to put their emotions aside is like wrestling pigs.

Hey Paul - my military dad married my East German mother in 1959 and brought her to the states. Small world, huh?

Paul said "I do not make comments of any kind on your physical or mental limitations, but you go there. Why?"

I didn't go there. This is the first that I've heard of any limitations I have. Where did that come from? I made a could typos and suddenly I've got limitations? hmm.

I think that we have finally arrived ..... common ground..... rare dirt..

Military men marrying German women.....uhhhh is there a comparison to our illegal immigrant problem gentlemen? Looks like apples and oranges to me!! Let us not insult our military folks please....a pure overreach for sure.

Lorna - It was simply a statement made based on Paul's statement. It has nothing to do with this argument. You need to ease up - it was simply a statement I found interesting. Once again, ease up a bit.

and Paul, your take on Monsieur Soros' WELL MEANING SUPPORT for CAUSES vs the Koch Brothers USE OF THEIR MONEY to Support Conservative POLICIES that do directly economically benefit them......SUPPORT VS MONEY.... POLICIES VS CAUSES....Absolutely love the SPIN, ha, ha. I think the word POWER has been conveniently left out.

As for the fact that your Mom never called you honey child....I am sorry.

I am proud my mother never called me honey, sweetie, etc. She taught us to learn first and last names and call people by it. The 'folks back home' saw this as endearing and respectful. She said people like to hear their name in conversation. Do you understand now, Lorna? Do you see there are other views than yours, Lorna? Also, apples and oranges are both a fruit - common ground.

I support Pat McDonough and I'll be donating to his cause. If you don't like it then go ahead call me a bigot. Who cares? Many of you throw that word out and play the race card at every opportunity.

I say America first, I'm tired of my tax money going to illegals. California is billions in the hole due to illegal immigration and all the entitlements illegals are given and the gov't there still can't catch a clue as to why they are in the mess they are in. We have an immigration policy but lack a local, state, federal government and a Governor and President who will carry out their constitutional duties.

Not too much longer before I can't split this welfare state and get out of O'Moron land.

Sad to say but I find this website much of a joke. In a couple of instances I have seen those who make valid points attacked personally by those who are of the liberal persuasion and tossed off the site, while others engage in repeated thread hijacking, calling others bigots and other personal attacks.

Who's running this asylum?. People like Armstrong and a couple of others are nothing but trolls and deserve some attention of the website management.

Personally I'd like see a couple of people here obtain the IP addresses of the posters and sue them for libel.