UPDATE: 50-House Development Proposed Next to Perry Hall Library

A community meeting was held Thursday night at the Perry Hall Library.

UPDATE (Dec. 8, 10:30 p.m.)—Neighbors of a planned housing development next to the shared concerns about school overcrowding, water flow and safety Thursday night.

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The plan to construct 50 new single family homes in a 25-acre lot of forest and farmland was "still in its beginning stages," said developer Jonathan C. Mayers, president of Chesapeake Realty Partners, during the community meeting.

Mayers was joined by Donald Mitten of Richardson Engineering, LLC, and Jan Cook, a Baltimore County project manager, in sharing the plan and taking questions from community members.

The development, that may take a full year and a half to gain county approval, is pending a traffic study, additional meetings and market forces, Cook said.

The finished homes are expected to sell in the $450,000-$500,000 range, Mayers said.

The county projects that new homeowners will add 11 elementary school students, seven middle school students and nine high school students, Mitten said.

But Mary Miller, a longtime resident of Cross Road, said the additional students may be more than local schools are prepared to handle.

"My son has 64 students in his phys ed class at the high school and he said a lot of the children were getting away with a lot of stuff ... how will they learn?" Miller said.

Some community members said they believed the number of additional students was underestimated.

Cook, however, said he supported Mitten's use of the numbers. "He's just following what the office of planning is giving him," he said.

Discussion about water flow dominated much of the meeting.

In past years, housing developments were required to construct large storm water drainage ponds. But the preferred system now calls for multiple shallow depressions, filled partially with sand, that filter smaller amounts of water, Mitten said.

The land's natural gradation would send nearly all of the runoff from the planned housing development flowing southeast, in the direction of the Honeygo and Cross Road intersection, Mitten said, and away from older, existing homes.

Some community members, however, said the developer would need to take special precautions to prevent the additional water from entering their backyards.

Mayers said he would be willing to personally walk through the backyards of nearby residents to evaluate the possibility of damage caused by water runoff.

"Not everyone wants to see housing, and we respect that, but we're very respectful of the regulations," he said.

Paul Amirault, treasurer of the , said his major concern was about the saftey of children traveling from the development to , which would involve crossing Honeygo traffic. 

"We're protecting trees and storm water management, but what are we doing to protect these kids?" Amirault said.

Mayers said he would explore ways to make crossing the street safer and consider Amirault's suggestion to construct an overhead crossing bridge.

Mayers also addressed questions about the land's former ownership. 

The Archdiocese of Baltimore had, at one time, intended to use the land for a Catholic church, one resident said.

Mayers confirmed this and added that parts had also been owned by Baltimore County and the Maryland Department of Natural Resources Program Open Space.

At one time, much of the land had been intended to become a holding place for county school buses, causing a highly-publicized backlash from local residents, Mayers said.

Under a land-swap deal with the developer, a section of the lot directly adjacent to the library is still intended to be under the ownership of the county, Mayers said.

plans to form a committee to determine the land's best use, he said, adding that it's large enough to house another senior center or possible gymnasium.

"We're setting the table to create a better situation for all of us," Mayers said.


UPDATE (Dec. 8, 3:30 p.m.)—A small handwritten sign along Honeygo Boulevard announces a community input meeting at 6:45 p.m., tonight to discuss a proposal for 50 new single family homes in a 25-acre field next to the , on Honeygo Boulevard.

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Librarians said they were unsure when the sign was posted, but several community members had called the library throughout the day Thursday to confirm meeting details.

Jan Cook, a Baltimore County project manager, confirmed that he would be attending the meeting.

"Notices were sent out to community associations and owners of properties adjacent to the proposed development," Cook said.

The meeting will conducted by the developing company, Arch Op, LLC, and the development engineer, Donald Mitten of Richardson Engineering, LLC, Cook said.

Construction on the 50 planned homes is pending county approval, a traffic study, additional meetings and market forces, he said.

"Generally, they will have from a year from tonight to come up with a development plan," Cook said.

Would you support another housing development in the North Perry Hall area? Tell us in the comments.

Dominick Dunnigan December 10, 2011 at 12:26 AM
I would challenge the County's factors for calculating student enrollment. I live in a small subdivision of twelve houses that was developed in 2002. The development plans projected 4 for elementary, 2 for middle, and 1 for high school. There are 30 kids in our neighborhood. There are 7 kids in the 2nd grade alone! Families have grown in size over the past decade. I wonder if the calculating factors for new developments have kept paced. The figures cited above seem very low. I would argue that there would be closer to 40 elementary school kids.
Jay GRabowski December 10, 2011 at 12:27 AM
Tim, I said the exact same thing over 20 years ago. It did not work then, either. Perry Hall City. The city that breeds!
Christie Pulvino December 10, 2011 at 01:15 AM
Ugh Jay, I remember you; you moved out and live in the Garden of Eden, but still for some reason love to bash P. Hall. With all the passion in your comments seems to me you still really care and miss this town because if you didn't most wouldn't look back or be so nosey. Stay off our Patch, you do not live here anymore. Although I am not a fan of all the development going on, I like living in Perry Hall
Joe December 10, 2011 at 01:41 AM
Oh god you and your Perry Hall city crap again. I thought in a previous article you said you didn't follow the PHall Patch because you moved into your parents basement a decade ago. If you left and are so happy why do you have to continuously log in a bash our town. Some of us like it here. Maybe it's because you're gone who knows? Whether we are over crowded or not, this is still a nice place to live with nice people in nice developments. We are in close proximity to many great things the county and Baltimore city have to offer. So there are plenty of great people and things keeping many of us here in this community. If you are happy to be gone great! Enjoy your life in your little town and stop talking trash on our Patch.
Karen B December 10, 2011 at 02:17 AM
This is ridiculous. We need another High School so bad, and all they are concerned with is money, money, money. There are plenty of houses here now. I live right around the corner from the library and honestly it's becoming a joke. Closing off access to Forge Road was a big mistake. All these people see are dollar signs. It makes me sick. It's getting so overcrowded here now, like we really need more houses. Come on, wake it up. The people that live here now are killing themselves working 2 and 3 jobs just to pay their mortgages so they can stay living in the homes they have worked so hard to keep. Look at the little strip mall where Shear Genious is now. That was empty forever. These people better start thinking about whats most important. Our children our so overcrowded in school now, having to pile into tiny trailors for classrooms. It makes me sick. We need little businesses that will give our kids places to work. My son is 16 yrs old and has applied to every place you can think and no one will hire him. Forget the houses. This whole thing just makes me sick, literally sick to my stomach. Excuse me Mr. Developers, go build somewhere else, we don't need anymore homes. PERIOD!!!
Karen B December 10, 2011 at 02:25 AM
Oh yeah! I have to agree with person above. How about building a rec center for our teenagers. Give them a place to go and hang out. They have no where to go. The avenue is booting them out by 9pm. I mean come on. Where do our kids really have to go and hang out. A rec center could have pool tables, they could hold dances, have a basketball court outsidpe or in, maybe a pool. Anything would be better than MORE houses. Have games night, or movie night. There are so many cool ideas we as parents could come up with for our kids to do in a rec center. NO MORE HOUSES!!!!! Think of our kids for once. These developers are so selfish and all they see is dollar signs. Makes me sick.
megp December 10, 2011 at 03:36 AM
I totally agree with building a teen center, or a church -- but another school, in this location, I don't feel would be safe for the kids, or the drivers who rely on Honeygo Blvd to get to I-95 (now the Keelty has closed off Forge, and made it a non-option for getting through to the far end of Honeygo). The traffic is horrendous on Honeygo now -- can you imagine school busses, and an average of 200 or more cars during both morning rush hour and the end of the school day/start of evening rush hours? Plus, the folks who live in thedevelopments on boht sides of Honeygo -- they already have traffic problems (remember the truck upside down last year?
megp December 10, 2011 at 03:36 AM
I also strongly agree with many prior posters -- we have empty homes here on the market -- but the economy is too weak and looks as if it will take another few years to recoup -- no one can afford a used $250-k - $300-k house -- who can afford a $500-k home? The banks will love it, of course -- more folks will get sucked into those interest-only balloon mortgages, only to find out that 3 or 5 years after they're in their home, that, gee, oh my gosh -- they have to start paying on the principal!!! and what happens? forclosures. next, it's more loss on our property values. Then, when we are ready to retire, we won't have half the 'real estate investment' that we will have paid for, and probably won't be able to afford a silly condo or senior living area anywhere ...... including further north into Cecil county, or somewhere else in the boondocks ..... It's a real shame. This used to be nice, sub-urban area. It's becoming too over-crowded much too quickly. The politicians should have followed Westminster's approach from back in the mid-80's: build the roads first, then make sure the water is there -- and then, penalize all new home builders an extra $5-k just for invading their county! I bet if there were a penalty like that imposed, on top of the excessive housing prices, they would not sell very easily. Lastly, yep -- the politicians always change. It's like a good romance -- courtship is great, the living day-to-day is the rough part .... and dying is a God send.
Karen B December 10, 2011 at 11:31 AM
Meg I understand what you are saying, but they should have never shut off Forge Road to begin with. It was so much easier to get to Belair Road, now we have to drive all the way down to the light at Honeygo and Belair road, to drive back up to where we need to go. It was the dumbest thing. Also think that long time resident who said it made it better and safer was a moron. If someone wants to rob there home it's just as easy. They can just park in the funeral parking lot, or the medical center parking lot and take off real fast. Forge Road needs to reopen and a teen center or school needs to be put there. Most of is are scraping our pennies together to remain in or homes and I love living here and the last thing we need is more homes. I have lived in Perry Hall since 1990 and was a local business owner here at one time and knew it was going to be developed, but it's gotten out of hand. These developers see dollar signs, they don't care what we think, or how they inconvenience us. I would volunteer my time if they opened a teen center. Heck I would even offer to run it. I grew up in Baltimore City by Memorial stadium and my Uncle who is pretty well known, ran many of the city recs and if it wouldn't have been for those rec centers those kids would have been out creating havoc, but my uncle made the rec center fun, we had pool tables, air hockey, contests, lunches, indoor and outdoor sports and this is what we need desperately. Think of the kids for once, Selfish developers
Jay GRabowski December 10, 2011 at 12:07 PM
Perry Hall City Residents: While your suggestions are commendable, all of you are wasting your time and efforts. The bottom line is money, and the greedy developers, banksters, and politicains who profit from all of this will stop at nothing to get what they want in the end. These houses will be built, I guarantee it. Perry Hall, was at one time a nice comminiuty and a nice place in which to live and raise a family, MO MORE!!! I was a long time resident, but moved out over 12 years ago, as I saw all of this coming. Wake up people, the crime rate in Perry Hall and it's surrounding communities had been escalating dramitically over the years, the housing market is stagnate, you are surrounded by section 8 housing, as a result of Move To Opportunity. Yes, another great idea put into effect by your local politicians, just never in their own neighborhood. Unfortunately, your only recourse, is to move the heck out of Perry Hall, as quickly as you can. You all need to stop defending the un defendable. If I remember correctly, Baltimore City was at one time a nice place to live in as well. Perry Hall is following the same course of action.
megp December 10, 2011 at 01:02 PM
Karen -- thanks for your comment to mine. I hope you understood my basic points: stop the housing development and think of what the community needs & wants. I think the rec center is the best idea. I do not think a school at this location is idea, because of the narrow side street (Cross Road) and the fast-paced Honeygo Blvd. I was travelling across Honeygo this morning, *before 7-am !!* and there was already a wrecked car at the intersection of Honeygo and Cross -- if cars are getting hit without traffic, imagine the havoc more vehicle would create for a school zone ..... and the children that could potentially be hurt. Yes, I agree -- closing Forge was a DUMB move, and made no sense at all to me. re: Jay's comment above: I, too, used to be a resident of Baltimore city, in the northeast section. It was a 'Mayberry' like neighborhood when I grew up; it was a 'little Jamaca' when I left (I don't mean to be P-incorrect, but that's the way it is). I stuck it out as long as I could, before moving here almost 18 years ago. It's nice to say 'move' but we cannot afford, as Karen said, to move because we are also scraping pennies together to remain in our over-priced house! Besides, moving to me means retreating, and other than upland Canada, I cannot think of any other rural areas where we could escape our corrupted politicos!... just IHMO.
Al Carlson December 10, 2011 at 01:21 PM
Things are changing! Oh my gosh! Can't adapt! It's not the '60s anymore! New, strange looking people coming! The humanity! Meg - the day of the interest only/balloon mortgages are over.
David Marks December 10, 2011 at 01:54 PM
I usually do not respond on these bulletin boards, but feel compelled to note the following. As a "local politician," I live in this community less than a half-mile from Honeygo Boulevard. Our son attends Joppa View Elementary School. I grew up on Joppa Road and remember what Perry Hall looked like before the massive development that brought hundreds of new homes to the Honeygo area. Some folks may live in these newer neighborhoods. I have been in office for one year, and in my first rezoning cycle, have proposed potentially downzoning 280 acres of land, more than five times the acreage of Perry Hall High School. It is very easy for people who have "fled" Perry Halll to trash our community, or for others to attack "local politicians." But I still believe Perry Hall is a wonderful place to live and that we can ensure a great future for this community. This is why I have proposed such a substantial downzoning of land. If you agree with downzoning 280 acres of land in Perry Hall, or if you have a different perspective, please consider attending public hearings this spring to make your voice heard.
Elaine Girardi December 10, 2011 at 03:19 PM
Well put David Marks!!! I am a big fan!!! Those that don't even put their full name on their hateful comments need to go away! David will you please post when the next community meeting will be? I'll be there! I bet alot of us who are against more housing and in favor of a school or teen center will be there!! Are you with me Perry Hall citizens? Let's be proactive and see this through!!!
David Marks December 10, 2011 at 04:54 PM
Elaine, thank you very much. The public hearing will be at Perry Hall High School in March. It is identified on the link below. This is an opportunity to provide input to the Planning Board. http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/planning/zoning/2012czmp/pbhearings.html
Elaine Girardi December 10, 2011 at 05:16 PM
Thank you! The meeting is Tuesday, March 20th at PHHS. Put it on your calendar. Let's have a big turn out and demand that our politicians do the will of the people!!!! Enough is enough.
Stephanie Miller December 10, 2011 at 08:48 PM
Great! I'll be there. I think it would be great if the perry hall patch had a section that included community meetings so we all have easy access to the information on upcoming meetings. Better turnout I'm sure! Stop the building!! The patch just had an article on the massive overcrowding in the schools that was UNDERESTIMATED by prior predictions!!!! No more houses!!!!!
Jay GRabowski December 10, 2011 at 09:04 PM
This public meeting will not make one bit of difference. Just a formality, a protocol. Nothing but a dog and pony show, smoke and mirrows. In the past, I personally attended numerous meetigns to halt the over development in Perry Hall, to no avail. The deveolpers, politicians, and the banksters feed off of one another. One hand washes the other. Our entire government is at the beckon call of the crooked banksters, who control the world's monetary system. All of you are absolutely clueless as to what really goes on.
Tim December 10, 2011 at 09:44 PM
False. It's one thing to understand the corrupt world we live in. It's yet another to lay back and take it, like you seem to suggest.
megp December 11, 2011 at 12:53 AM
great! I'll put in on my calendar, as well. I would like to see a rec center put there ..... but not more housing. thanks for sharing the info re: the meeting well in advance, David.
Norman Crouse December 11, 2011 at 10:15 AM
First of all, I commend you for keeping in touch by watching the community through a great new media. My concerns are that the citizens are never made aware of the "land swap" deals until it is too late. When those politicians and community members that mentored the deal with Landmark, Ryan and the host of developers / builders that built up the Perry Hall - White Marsh pushed for open space, they stopped short of PLANNING for what could or might happen when they built the fields at Honeygo and Perry Hall Park (across from the Library). If anyone has noticed, there is a large issue when these fields are used for tournaments that could potentially provide revenue to the local merchants and restaurants and consequently provide additonal tax base to the county by permits, fees and business taxes realized from the increased revenue. The logistics of parking and the need for additional field space because of the increased number of families in the area is beyond what the county realized when they asked those developers some 2o years ago to provide the open space for the fields. Our County Officials did not make the developers accountable to see into the future, and therefore, as most politicians go, they could not see into the future. So now we are faced with the prospect of more homes, and still the dilemma of not enough field space, or PARKING for the sports play that we have now. When tornaments are held at PHP or Honeygo, cars are forced to park on the HG boulevard.
Norman Crouse December 11, 2011 at 10:30 AM
This problem will only get worse with the addition of the new developments at Keelty, and the new homes proposed at Forge RD adjacent the older Forge Acres community, and the floundering Danliegh properties across from those, and now the proposed 50 homes at Cross and Honeygo. It is only not about these 50 homes, it's about why we continue to allow homes to be built on 1/4 acre parcels when if the politicians would just get the builders to agree to build on 1/2 acre lots the denisity would be more managable. The damage is done for now, but YOU have a chance to rally the people and make a stand, if you are up to it. If you could, please clear something up for me. I was under the impression that a PH Rec had approached the county to do a land swap to use the land for parking and another field or two, if they fit, and the County turned them down. Was that because they were not able to show the County enough initial ROI and up front revenue from a developer tax and that the revenue would not reach its ROI for 10 plus years? The benefits to the community would be 10 fold. Club teams are poppingup all over the place, These Club teams are revenue producing entities, and will pay for field space, if not to the county, than to private investors. If the County Officials don't start thinking outside the Housing and Developer box, we will loose our community. Give the Kids somewhere to go, somewhere WE can watch them grow,They are our future.
Norman Crouse December 11, 2011 at 11:02 AM
Jay, With all respect, you sound like a developer. Some of us have grown up in the construction industry, and have taken macro and micro economics, and have kept up with what impacts our communities. I agree that SKATELAND type facilities are NOT what we need because they are private corporations that have a profit model, and when the profits are down, the supervisory costs are the first to be eliminated, that said, we are still faced with the issue of housing saturation, and an overcommitment to the 1/4 acre postage lot that gives nothing more than an overpriced place to sleep at night. Open space facilities, parking and Indoor sports facilities will give the kids somewhere to go, give the County jobs for councilors and hopefully engage the community to volunteer and become a closer knitted social area.
megp December 11, 2011 at 12:36 PM
David -- for what purpose has the county ear marked the land in this area to be used? Is it on the books as 'open space' or is it dedicated for buildings? And when you mention 'downzoning' -- please elucidate. I think if we knew what was on the county planner's roster, we, as a community, could get a better idea of what to rally for -- i.e. in terms of open fields, with parking for athletic teams to use (unlike the indoor events that the small rec center further down Honeygo can provide) and perhaps a second playing field versus the houses (and would the developers be able to build more condos, or only single units?) versus ??? other ideas. As to Mr Grubbs' remark about '12 certified county planners on this post' -- we're never claiming to have all the answers, perhaps none of them ... but we do have concerns that we all want to express. And this format is an ideal way to start discussions. I'm glad you added your remarks, and I hope others continue to do so, with respect to those of us who have already 'spoken our peace'. Thank you.
Elaine Girardi December 11, 2011 at 03:37 PM
I too have been to meetings in the past where people voiced their opinion on over crowding in the schools. Nothing has been done. Now we have David Marks and the Perry Hall Patch to get the word out about the March meeting. We can have a bigger turn out and show that the people of Perry Hall mean business!!! I will also spread the word!!! I choose to feel positive about the future!!!
SewBee January 21, 2012 at 02:04 AM
I agree with you Melissa, I am so ready to leave this area. Houses sit forever & can't be sold. How many families can afford more houses/mansions in this day & age. This has gotten so far out of hand it's ridiculous. The more we build with concrete & tarred roads the more we take away from the environment. There is no protection from the crazy weather we have had they are digging it all up and that's when global warming comes into the picture. Doesn't people see the environment is losing. We build on the land and lose the nature that holds back mud run offs, trees giving us oxygen to breath & absorb the bad air. We are killing the wild life I use to see in this area. We are hurting mother nature, besides putting our families in danger when Honeygo Blvd finally came through from Belair Road. Think People this mass building frenzy is not needed!
SewBee January 21, 2012 at 02:10 AM
That land sat for a long time because Richmond Homes weren't able to sell. In fact they let go of a lot of the people that worked for them because of hard times. I know this because I was in an Unemployment class the State made us go to with a lot of their employees that worked for them that were laid off.
SewBee January 21, 2012 at 02:20 AM
I agree with Karen, the county should never have cut off Forge Road. It was easier for us to get to the gas station and Funeral home and the Medical center right across from the light. I heard that only republicans were mailed out a survey to vote whether Forge Road to be closed or not, no Democrats. I didn't get the survey but my neighbor did. Politics leading our lives, telling us what to do, which way to go & where we drive. More gas usage for me to get to where I need to go.
SAB January 26, 2012 at 10:23 PM
I hope the residents of this community wake up! We have a proposed development now going to the ALJ phase across from Cromwell Valley Park. Thanks goes to Mr. Gardina granting the developers any waivers they would like and also commenting to me that the CIM was too late for our community to state our opposition to their open space waiver. Baltimore County wants infill development and has no issue contributing to this over-development. Mr Gardina, Kamenetz and their croonies may make some extra pension off of this. Good Luck Perry Hall
megp January 27, 2012 at 03:38 AM
There is a CZMP 2012 Planning Board Public Hearing scheduled for the 5th Council on Tuesday March 20, 2012 at Perry Hall Sr High --- I suggest we all get to this meeting. From what I understand, the 'development' is in planning stages -- there may still be time to stop it, but ONLY if we're all there to speak out. Just my 5-cents worth ...


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